Hello all, I still haven’t decided for my next unicycle so my question is, is it
better to have lollipop or the main-cap style bearing holders? thanks, jeff
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Re: bearing holders
Lollypop bearing holders are bad
Taiwanese main cap bearing holders like on the Coker, Semcycle XL, Torker and
others are OK
Miyata bearing holders are good
Machined main cap (or pillow block) bearing holders like on the DM’s, Telford
and others are good
One thing to be careful about with the main cap style (and especially the
Taiwanese style) is to make sure you don’t over tighten them. It is very easy to
over tighten the Taiwanese style and cause the bearing not to spin very well.
john_childs
>From: jeff d tuttle
>
>Hello all, I still haven’t decided for my next unicycle so my question is, is
>it better to have lollipop or the main-cap style bearing holders? thanks, jeff
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Re: bearing holders
Yeah. That statement about lollypop bearing holders being bad did deserve an
explanation. But I was too lazy at the time to write a longer message.
I’ve had bad experiences with the lollypop bearing holders on my Pashley MUni.
One of the bearing holders was not machined out accurately and squeezes the
bearing too tightly. That one bearing starts to spin a bit rough after about a
month of riding and wears out much faster than the other bearing. Next time I
replace the bearing I might take it to a machinist to get it cleaned up. I’ve
been hesitant to attempt to grind it out myself because I would most likely
end up making it worse by grinding out too much or grinding out the wrong
area. The good news is that I’ve gotten some good practice in replacing
bearings on the Pashley.
Granted, my opinion is based on a sample size of one. Maybe I’m the only one who
has a bad lollypop bearing holder.
If the lollypop style bearing holders are machined accurately they can be a
good design. However, if you are unlucky and get one that wasn’t machined
accurately then you are SOL. Given the general level of quality control on the
unicycles that use the lollypop style I don’t have a lot of confidence in them
being able to accurately and consistently machine the bearing holders. At least
with the main cap style bearing holder you can easily adjust them if the
bearing is binding.
I do agree that many riders who are unfamiliar with bicycle maintenance
probably over tighten the bolts on the main cap style bearing holders. A little
note about that problem of over tightening should be in the owners manual for
the unicycle, but I have not seen that type of info in any owners manual for
any unicycle.
The Taiwanese style main cap bearing holders do have problems. They are more
oval than round and they only contact the bearing in a few places. This
practically guarantees that the bearing will be squished. Not over tightening
them just means that they are squished less. When you put your weight on the uni
all that weight it concentrated on only a few spots on the bearing rather than
being distributed evenly across the top of the bearing. But for the price range
that the Taiwanese main cap style is aimed at I think it is an OK design.
Assuming a well machined lollypop bearing holder the lollypop style will be
easier on the bearings and the bearings should last longer than in a Taiwanese
main cap style. But if you are going for long bearing life I think the Miyata
and the machined pillow block / split block bearing holders are the best choice.
john_childs
>From: “Roger”
>
>John,
>
>I would have said that saying that lollypop bearing holders are bad, is being a
>little simplistic…
>
[snip]
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RE: bearing holders
I read the original question and all the responses so far. Great information and
advice! But nobody mentioned what I consider the main problem with the lollypop
bearing holders on cheap Taiwan and China unicycles.
The problem is not at the bearing. Cheap Lollypop bearing holders are probably
much better on bearings than the pressed steel main cap type. But if they cause
your unicycle frame to fail, they can’t be recommended. And they do.
I have heard of many cases of the side-bolted lollypop bearing holders
over-stressing and breaking the metal between the two bolt holes, killing the
fork. This is due to what can most quickly be summed up as retarded engineering.
If you look at automobile and bicycle design, you will never, ever see
flat-headed bolts screwed into non-flat surfaces. At least not without a
specially shaped washer to fit between them. Instead, the force is concentrated
over a narrow, straight line up the side of the fork.
If you don’t keep the bolts tight enough, they will come loose because the
bearing holder is not a precise fit into the fork. If you keep the bolts too
tight, eventually the cracking and failure can happen. I imagine the cracking
can also happen from riding with a loose bearing holder, causing it to jiggle
around in there.
The problem can be solved on unicycles with this design with the addition of
washers that are round on one side to match the fork, and flat on the other side
to match the bolt. The reason the cycles don’t come with this is because the
manufacturers are working hard to keep costs as low as possible and keep the
unicycles’ price down. Buyers don’t know (unless we keep speaking up), until
much later if the thing fails. The manufacturers are gambling on a low
percentage of these unicycles being actually ridden, and an even lower
percentage of them being ridden enough to lead to these kinds of problems.
But it’s not a total disaster, even if your frame fails. I met a guy this Spring
at Paramount’s Great America theme park in Santa Clara. He was a juggling
performer with a unicycle. I checked out his unicycle, and it was one of the
Taiwan models with the lollypops. I was reluctant to tell him the bad news after
riding his cycle around for a few seconds. The frame was already cracking apart
between the bolts, and the bearing holders were moving around freely in the
non-fitting fork ends. It looked like he would need a new unicycle.
But then I met the guy again this Fall at the Lodi Juggling Festival (sorry I
can’t remember his name). He still had the same unicycle. “Why did you buy
another one of those?” I asked him, assuming it was because he couldn’t afford a
more expensive one. He replied “I didn’t. My bike shop replaced the fork at no
cost.” Very cool!
I don’t assume all bike shops would do that, but I recommend you try it if you
have the same problem. If lots of returns start being made, the effect will
eventually be felt back at the factory. Then maybe they will consider a less
stupid design.
Until then, I’ll have to keep recommending other bearing attachment methods.
Note: The above does not apply to Pashleys. I have never heard of a frame
failure on one of those, and the bolt presses on both sides of the fork,
not just one.
In summary, lollypop bearing holders are a great way to hold a bearing, but if
they’re not attached to the unicycle fork in such a potentially damaging way, I
can’t recommend them.
> I do agree that many riders who are unfamiliar with bicycle maintenance
> probably over tighten the bolts on the main cap style bearing holders. A
> little note about that problem of over tightening should be in the owners
> manual for the unicycle, but I have not seen that type of info in any owners
> manual for any unicycle.
You’ve seen owners manuals for unicycles? I think I have only seen them for
Schwinn and Miyata. In other cases I have sometimes seen poorly translated
assembly instructions (if they used any words at all). And these are aimed at
bike shop mechanics, not consumers at home. No instructions are given on
bearings, or any other part of the unicycles we’re talking about, other than
which piece attaches to which other one, and where.
MAIN CAP BEARINGS: Follow the suggestions the guys have made. Turn the unicycle
upside down and spin the wheel slowly. It should keep spinning for a while. If
there is obvious binding or the wheel stops after a turn or two, loosen the
bolts a quarter turn, as Roger Davies suggested.
Also, make sure you have something in place to keep you from losing your bolts
if they come loose. Lock washers, or those nuts with the nylon inside to keep
them from unscrewing are even better.
TAIWAN/CHINA LOLLYPOP BEARINGS: Short term: Check the tightness of the bolts and
check for movement of the bearing holder in the frame. I can’t recommend a
torque setting, but you also don’t want it too tight. Lock washers won’t work on
the non-flat surface. Check tightness frequently.
Long term: Find yourself some washers, as described above, that are flat on one
side and round (to fit the fork) on the other side. Brett Bymaster had a set of
these made for his Pashley when it was new, and he’s never had any problems. I
have mentioned the idea to John Drummond at Unicycle Source, and I think he will
have a big batch made so they will be very cheap.
Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone http://www.unicycling.com
“Sometimes there just aren’t enough rocks.” – Forrest Gump
Re: bearing holders
John,
I would have said that saying that lollypop bearing holders are bad, is being a
little simplistic…
Lollypop bearing are the best for learners. They are almost fail safe to
assemble. They tend not fail unless you go into serious jumping (I must say that
this is the ones sold in the UK - we have had zero failures of the Taiwanese
Lollypop bearing holders and the new style Pashleys). Because the bearings are
held correctly they also last longer - again I have had to replace zero while in
the same time I have had to replace a vast number of bearing with split bearing
holders of the same age.
Split bearing housings do come in 2 types… the machined ones like the DM and
the Telford are superb and the pressed steel ones which are less good. The
problem with the pressed steel ones is the tolerances are often very poor. This
means that you have uneven force on the bearings and this causes the bearing to
have a shorter life. This added to the problem in people over tightening them
means that bearing do fail relatively often. One of my first tasks at open
workshops is checking the peoples unicycles and almost always there are some
bearing holders that are over tight.
----- Original Message ----- From: “John Childs” <john_childs@hotmail.com> To:
<unicycling@winternet.com> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 8:37 AM Subject: Re:
bearing holders
> Lollypop bearing holders are bad
>
> Taiwanese main cap bearing holders like on the Coker, Semcycle XL, Torker and
> others are OK
>
> Miyata bearing holders are good
>
> Machined main cap (or pillow block) bearing holders like on the DM’s, Telford
> and others are good
>
> One thing to be careful about with the main cap style (and especially the
> Taiwanese style) is to make sure you don’t over tighten them. It is very
> easy to over tighten the Taiwanese style and cause the bearing not to spin
> very well.
>
> john_childs
>
>
> >From: jeff d tuttle
> >
> >Hello all, I still haven’t decided for my next unicycle so my question is,
> >is it better to have lollipop or the main-cap style bearing holders?
> >thanks, jeff
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
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>
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> http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: bearing holders
At 11:05 AM 11/12/00 -0000, Roger wrote:
>One of my first tasks at open workshops is checking the peoples unicycles and
>almost always there are some bearing holders that are over tight.
Roger, how do you go about checking them for this problem?
-Rick
Re: bearing holders
John Foss <john_foss@asinet.com> wrote:
> You’ve seen owners manuals for unicycles? I think I have only seen them for
> Schwinn and Miyata. In other cases I have sometimes seen poorly translated
You shoud take a look at the coker instruction manual, its a hoot. Especially
the many times it warns of danger of death ( or something like that).
sarah
Re: bearing holders
John Foss Wrote:
> The problem is not at the bearing. Cheap Lollypop bearing holders are probably
> much better on bearings than the pressed steel main cap type. But if they
> cause your unicycle frame to fail, they can’t be recommended. And they do
Yes, I’ve experienced that the hard way. My first and so far only unicycle is a
cheap 24" Cyclepro from Taiwan (Warning: stay of this “comfortable as a
brick”-seat)
After less than two months of not-so-frequent unicycling, my rim was slowly
cracking up around the “lollipop screws”. I had not been very rough, but at the
time i was learning to hop around and going down stairs.
So far riding normally was no problem, but when i grabbed my seat to start
hopping, I ripped the fork straight out of the lollipop holders. There I stood
on what had suddenly become an ulimate-wheel. (Looking very confused, I guess.)
“Boring technical part:” I fixed my frame by cutting off about 5cm of the
broken fork at each side. Then I replaced this part with a very durable
steeltube (cut out of steelblocks normally used for making industrial
machinery) I made the hole in one end big enought to be thread outside
the (new) forkend, the inside of the bottom half had the width of the
original fork.
After repairing my fork, I have had no bearing problems at all. The design
have lived through som rough Muniing, but now the frame is getting more and
more bent…
Happy Uniing // Staffan Palm Sweden
Re: bearing holders
Turn the unicycle upside down and spin the wheel. If it grouches or does not
spin easily the bearing are more than likely over tight. Quarter turn on each
nut normally does it.
Hope this helps.
The UK's Unicycle Source <a href="http://www.unicycle.uk.com/">http://www.unicycle.uk.com/</a>
----- Original Message ----- From: “Rick Bissell” <rickbissell@ncweb.com> To:
“Roger” <Roger@unicycle.uk.com>; <unicycling@winternet.com> Sent: Sunday,
November 12, 2000 3:30 PM Subject: Re: bearing holders
> At 11:05 AM 11/12/00 -0000, Roger wrote:
> >One of my first tasks at open workshops is checking the peoples unicycles and
almost
> >always there are some bearing holders that are over tight.
>
> Roger, how do you go about checking them for this problem?
>
> -Rick
Re: bearing holders
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000, Staffan Palm wrote:
>John Foss Wrote:
>> The problem is not at the bearing. Cheap Lollypop bearing holders are
>> probably much better on bearings than the pressed steel main cap type. But
>> if they cause your unicycle frame to fail, they can’t be recommended. And
>> they do
>
>
>Yes, I’ve experienced that the hard way. My first and so far only unicycle is a
>cheap 24" Cyclepro from Taiwan (Warning: stay of this "comfortable as a
>brick"-seat)
>
>After less than two months of not-so-frequent unicycling, my rim was slowly
>cracking up around the “lollipop screws”. I had not been very rough, but at the
>time i was learning to hop around and going down stairs.
That sounds like it was defective if it happened that quickly. I had my
24" Summit (basically the same as the cyclepro) for over a year and never
had a problem.
However, my friend that bought it from me managed to do the same thing (cracked
both sides of the frame around the bearing holder screws) in about 3 months. He
had a local shop weld it back together
I wonder if the dealer you bought the unicycle at would replace the frame, given
that it wasn’t that old?
Greg