Are you experienced?

Off-topic
1

Hello everyone, long time no see. I just popped by the unicyclist community to get some unicyclists’ opinions on a controversial subject (cause I know how much we all love those).

I was wondering if any people here would like to share their rationalized opinions on the place of psychedelic and dissociative drugs in spirituality. It would be cool to hear intelligent arguments and not “mommy and daddy said all drugs are bad and I won’t believe anything else” or “man, dropping acid is so sick”. I also would like this discussion to be focused mainly on the mental/spiritual effects associated with drugs rather than physical effects.

My opinion is that under the influence of substances such as cannabis, mescaline, LSD, psiliyibin or salvia, the user’s mind is not neccesarily “impaired” but its focus is shifted to other ways of viewing the world and him/herself that aren’t usually experienced. Of course, this means that the user will act differently and perhaps “irrationally” if they are trying to interact with the world as if they are in their “normal” state of mind. But this is why most spiritual drug users don’t go out tearin’ up the highway when they’re meditating.
I don’t think that the value of certain substances can be disregarded or condemned simply because we teach ourselves not to alter our mindsets. Mind altering flora (and fauna in the case of the psychedelic toad) and preperations such as these have been used as far back as historians can plunge, by shamans, preists, ordinary religious laymen, artists and musicians. They have used them to gain insight, answer questions, communicate with the earth, spirits and the deceased. They are also used to reach a high level of creative liberation and to “keep the soul in line”.
However I also believe that, as with any drug, the line between benificial effects and abuse can be crossed easily. One dosn’t even have to be using acid or weed at a party for “fun” to be misusing the drug. Using a drug should only be one aspect of a person’s spirituality.
Resorting soley to drug use to reach enlightment is the same as resorting to drug use to escape sadness or hatred or having body fat lipoed out of your body. It’s an easy way to get what you want, but you yourself aren’t actually reaching that state for yourself and the only way you will get there is by ingesting the drug. My belief is that one should take inspiration and guidence from a drug (if that is the route they choose of course) but not let the drug do all the work instead of them.
I think that if one uses such a drug with the purest of intentions and respect, not using it for its eupohric properties but to see one’s own mind and the outside world through a different set of windows, and then to apply what they saw out those windows to their lives, using them to become a better person, the drug is not detrimental.

But I am very anxious to hear everyone else’s opinions on the subject. :slight_smile:

Peace, and LEGALIZE ACID!!!

2

There can be a down side to acid

It was '82, I was a successful hippy juggler in New Orleans when I scored a great deal on 100 hits of acid.

Mostly good, I sold half to get my money back, then started on a real acid bender, dosing every 3 days (to avoid building tolerance), for a few months.

At first, results were mostly quite good, fun, and the acid focus can do more to improve juggling skill and ambition than anything else, you feel all the moves differently.

The dark side was I started to get grandiose ideas related to how I would learn something from god that would save the world from nuclear war. I started to have potentially violent arguments with religious nuts ( now that I was one, I took things personally). My friends started to shun me, my juggling show seemed unimportant, so I wasn’t making money. As the money ran out, and the rent was coming up, I got a crucial visit from a trusted friend, Cowboy Bob, lead guitar for the Busking Buzzards. He listened to me carefully, as I detailed to him the ideas that had so consumed me. He said that the reason he had come to see me was everyone was saying I was floundering in the deep end of the pool, way over my head with meta physical delusions. As I tried to explain why he was wrong, he stopped me. “You are fucking insane”, he said. “I am sorry to have to tell you this, you used to be awesome. Now you are a nut that is doing way to much acid.” I trusted Cowboy Bob, he had done as least as much acid as me, and his voice resonated with a certain sincerity and wisdom. “Just let it go, juggle your ass off to get in shape, then go out there and do your show.” “Make money, don’t worry about saving the world, make some money.” Good solid advice, which I took.

So besides that, most of my acid experiences were pretty good. I don’t want it to be illegal. Actually, had I been busted with those 100 hits, done prison, got out years later impoverished, that would have sucked.

3

Hey man, thanks for replying! That’s a really good story about why not to dose out without taking time to contemplate your trip and to get back in mental shape. Do you have a story about a positive acid experience that you found signifigant? How do you think acid effected your juggling long term?
Thanks!

4

I’d like to try peyote/mescaline. I’ve thought of dxm, but probably won’t.

5

Not to be “promoting” anything that could get you arrested, or worse, endanger yourself in any way, but if you are considering doing something that powerful, I would suggest working your way into the experience by using a lighter drug with a shorter duration, like mushrooms. Otherwise the experience could be too overwhelming because the shift in perception would be so intense and unexpected. The physical side effects (such as dehydration) should be very well researched before taking anything so you know what to do when the need arises. I just thought I’d throw that out there.

However, I’d like to keep this thread on the topic of spiritual drug use and not actually taking drugs. :slight_smile: Let’s keep ourselves free of any suspicious mutterings!

6

Not all mental delusions are unhelpful

I was a 20 year old welder, and 3 ball juggler. Acid trips sent me on a quest to find and meet the best jugglers I could. I got a job welding in Boulder, Co , just so I could practice at the University gym there. With Barret Falker ( IJA champ), Peter Davidson(future IJA champ), Neon and Dr. Hot. It was the center of juggling culture in 1980. There was no videos then, except movie night at the jugglers convention. Without the acid induced delusion that I would become a world class juggler, I am sure I would have never put in the effort to get the education the task required. I became this juggler by '87.

This is not my street show, I was asked to do a 5 minute show for a benefit.
I dropped on purpose (note how rhythmic the drop is), at the start of the 6 ball piece. I knew I was in for hell on a stage with those lights, and I wanted to get warmed up to dropping and having some fun. I wish I had a vid of my old street shows, but I don’t.
There was a lot of high sides to the acid induced delusions that I could become a street performer. Welding in ship yards with crabby bullies and idiots didn’t pay as good as the big hauls I could pull at festivals. And it sucked up your whole life, I now worked only weekends. And I got to become friends with cool people. Like Mel Fisher, who found the 350 million $ Atocha wreck. Shell Silverstein became my psychologist. Hunter Thomson shook my hand. Paris Hilton introduced me to her 11 year old sister Nicky at Mallory square, and requested a free juggling lesson, which I gave her over the course of an afternoon. Her father hated me, as all fathers of special girls feel about street performers. She had to ask me for a freebie, and was as cute as you can imagine. Joey, from “Friends” questioned me about it years later at a bar , telling me I knew a famous blond that he knew. I didn’t watch TV then, and had no idea who he was or what he was talking about. But he had 3 sorta body guard buddies, and I asked the girls at the bar if they thought he was a TV star, he said he was, and also that he liked my show. The girls were all sure he was a TV star. I told him I was sorry, I didn’t know what he was talking about, but I would try to remember the conversation. So yeah, you get special memories when you decide you are special, and become special.
There was this cool friend who showed up with a bunch of peyote buttons. The only time I have seen real peyote. If people say they are selling you mescaline, that means weak acid, or bunk. In 3 decades, I have only seen real buttons once. The first time eating was a real ordeal. The high was cool, it’s just that the buttons taste like drain cleaner. We were all struggling to chew and swallow them without puking, with mixed success. I discovered the best way if you should ever get buttons (almost hens teeth common). Cut the buttons up into tiny tiny bits with scissors. Then take a piece of wonder bread, put the cut peyote into the bread and smoosh it as a ball. Swallow it as a lump, without tasting the cactus at all. Excellent high, with no vomiting, seriously, thats a really bitter puke soon tasting plant.
I drink to much beer IMHO. Unlike cocaine, cigarettes, beer, heroin,… shrooms or acid doesn’t seem to be addictive. I mean, maybe I went insane with the acid for a bit, but I didn’t crave it. I would suggest mushrooms, made as a tea, to the curious. I haven’t used any in several years. It’s not addictive, but it may permanently change some of your feelings and the way you understand some subjects.

7

I agree. Although, even if someone uses a drug for its euphoric properties (or just for a bit of fun) i don’t see that as bad. The key is moderation and knowing your own limits.

I don’t really like the term ‘spiritual’, its not as if drugs magically reveal new information. But if you’re religious you’re probably going to associate what you experience with your god or whatever.

8

Yes and no. Drugs don’t reveal information by themselves, but they allow your brain to see something that was there before, just hidden. Like shining a torch in a dark room. Now, it’s up to the user which way to shine the torch. Some choose to dig deep into spirituality. Others may have different interests. Personally, I think that drugs are a great way to explore music.

9

Music is the supreme spirituality in my opinion. :slight_smile:

Another really good story Mr. Light!! I can’t wait to see the video once I’m on my laptop.

10

So I think things in the psychedelic world can go many ways. I think it is ok to use most of these things in moderation and responsibly of course. I dont care if it is for spiritual or euphoric reasons. They have a lot of positive(and some negative) outcomes. Of course a lot of these things used habitually seems to make people crazy, like Cowboy Bob pointed out. But I agree with ivan on the torch idea. Even when used euphoricly it seems to have properties that work like that. The thing I would say is most important with any of these is knowledge about what you are doing. Good research before you do something you either dont want to do, or shouldnt do. Keeps you safe…

I went through a wide array of these things. There were times when I felt I could find out a lot about myself and the world with their assistance. I also did used them for euphoria at times. I started out with psiliyibin and it was something I mixed with music a lot. At first mostly listening, later playing. The only time I have cried from pure happiness was when I listened to a Grateful Dead song with this. I also used mushrooms to reach for what I would call social expansion. When you are accompanied by people you can have communication that would never be possible, probably because you are slightly crazy :slight_smile: It is interesting the doors that can open with that.

Like I said I tried a wide array of these, honestly most for euphoric reasons. The next one I tried for what you might call spiritual opening was LSD. It is honestly one of those things that had I had 100 hits I probably would have needed a talking to from Cowboy Bob too. I felt a lot of potential from that… Instead of feeling euphoric or intensely spiritual I found it to be much more focusing and was able to physically expand myself too. Just like feel the light I was juggling and found I felt like I was able to gain things from the experience. I also was playing music, where in a jamming situation I felt extrodinary ability to improvise and see the music. I aslo was getting much more into astronomy around this period too and I would go out and watch the planets move or look at galexies and nebulas. I think it made the universe a much more exciting place for me than it would have been otherwise, even though I was already into it. Other than that I actually have found that I have gained visualization skills. I could always imagine things, but I could never see them in my head. If I closed my eyes I couldnt even visualize the face of my best friend. Now I can see things, I actually do have a visual mind now. Its kind of cool.

Psychedelic drugs are things that I think can have benefits even if you dont use them to find yourself or something like that. It does open your mind to look at the world we live in differently. And I think a lot of people could use that different point of view.

Anyways, thats what I got.