Almost like gears...

I know you can get gearings on some unicycles, but I thought of an idea this
morning that could possibly work, though may be horrendously expensive.

You know how you can use different length cranks for different things - long for
climbing, short for speed? Why not invent a VARIABLE length crank? It could be a
normal ‘long’ sized crank with the pedal attached to a separate moving part
inside the crank that can move the pedals along its length.

You could have some kind of remote control trigger to activate the
motor/whatever, but this would give you a large range of torque for different
terrains and conditions.

Or am I just being really stupid???

Tony

Re: Almost like gears…

I believe that Daniel Hopkins in California had a set of cranks at one point
that had several holes in them for the pedals, for adjustment of crank length.
They were cotterless and intended for tandem bikes.

— Sarah Miller <sarah@vimes.u-net.com> wrote:
> srsac@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk wrote:
> : You know how you can use different length cranks
> for different things - long
> : for climbing, short for speed? Why not invent a
> VARIABLE length crank? It
> : could be a normal ‘long’ sized crank with the
> pedal attached to a separate
> : moving part inside the crank that can move the
> pedals along its length.
>
>
> I’ve seen something similar on a penny farthing ( ordinary) bike, it was a
> long crank with a slot for the pedal rather than a round hole, the pedal was
> fixed with a bolt and nut rather than screwing in to the crank. so by moving
> the pedal to the hub end of the slot you got a short crank and to the rim end
> a long crank. Does any body know if these are still made? and if so are they
> made cotterless? I’d love to have a set. Not automatic but pretty neat.
>
> sarah
>


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Re: Almost like gears…

That’s why you always should go riding with a unicycle caddy. “Oh Jeeves, please
get me the 28 with the 125’s for this little stretch of the trail”

john_childs

From: Seth Golub <seth@aigeek.com>
>scott@enduco.com (Scott Bridgman) writes:
>
> > I would opt for multiple unicycles. Just select the one that’s correct for
> > the terrain.
>
>The funny thing about riding is that you go places, and sometimes the terrain
>isn’t the same where you end up as where you started.
>
>I’d also rather not have to spend an extra $50/month on a larger home just to
>store more unicycles.
>
>Special purpose equipment will always outperform for whatever single task it’s
>aimed at, but more versatile gear has advantages too.
>


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Re: Almost like gears…

Daniel probably had the da Vinci cranks or something similar. See
http://www.teamspirit.net/comp.html

john_childs

From: Kris Holm <danger_uni@yahoo.com>
>I believe that Daniel Hopkins in California had a set of cranks at one point
>that had several holes in them for the pedals, for adjustment of crank length.
>They were cotterless and intended for tandem bikes.
>
>— Sarah Miller <sarah@vimes.u-net.com> wrote:
> > srsac@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk wrote:
> > : You know how you can use different length cranks
> > for different things - long
> > : for climbing, short for speed? Why not invent a
> > VARIABLE length crank? It
> > : could be a normal ‘long’ sized crank with the
> > pedal attached to a separate
> > : moving part inside the crank that can move the
> > pedals along its length.
> >
> >
> > I’ve seen something similar on a penny farthing ( ordinary) bike, it was a
> > long crank with a slot for the pedal rather than a round hole, the pedal was
> > fixed with a bolt and nut rather than screwing in to the crank. so by moving
> > the pedal to the hub end of the slot you got a short crank and to the rim
> > end a long crank. Does any body know if these are still made? and if so are
> > they made cotterless? I’d love to have a set. Not automatic but pretty neat.
> >
> > sarah
> >
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com


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Re: Almost like gears…

srsac@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk wrote:
: You know how you can use different length cranks for different things - long
: for climbing, short for speed? Why not invent a VARIABLE length crank? It
: could be a normal ‘long’ sized crank with the pedal attached to a separate
: moving part inside the crank that can move the pedals along its length.

I’ve seen something similar on a penny farthing ( ordinary) bike, it was a long
crank with a slot for the pedal rather than a round hole, the pedal was fixed
with a bolt and nut rather than screwing in to the crank. so by moving the pedal
to the hub end of the slot you got a short crank and to the rim end a long
crank. Does any body know if these are still made? and if so are they made
cotterless? I’d love to have a set. Not automatic but pretty neat.

sarah

Re: Almost like gears…

The warehouse distributor (QBP Quality Bicycle Parts) has a set of cranks with
four threaded hole positions that provide a choice of length. Changing the
setting involves removing the pedals and screwing them into an alternate set of
holes. It’s not automatic but if you wanted to set up a unicycle for street
riding or off-road riding before a ride perhaps the multi-holed cranks arms
would be an advantage. An automatic system would be complex to design and
implement. A linear bearing that would withstand crank arm forces plus dust,
water and dirt would be a challanging enineering feat to say the least. It would
also need to be light in weight too. I would opt for multiple unicycles. Just
select the one that’s correct for the terrain. Happy trails.

“The Muniac”

Re: Almost like gears…

scott@enduco.com (Scott Bridgman) writes:

> I would opt for multiple unicycles. Just select the one that’s correct for the
> terrain.

The funny thing about riding is that you go places, and sometimes the terrain
isn’t the same where you end up as where you started.

I’d also rather not have to spend an extra $50/month on a larger home just to
store more unicycles.

Special purpose equipment will always outperform for whatever single task it’s
aimed at, but more versatile gear has advantages too.

Re: Almost like gears…

Yes his looked like that. If not the same model, then exactly the same idea.

—Nathan

John Childs <john_childs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:20000405040714.2664.qmail@hotmail.com
> Daniel probably had the da Vinci cranks or something similar. See
> http://www.teamspirit.net/comp.html
>
> john_childs
>
> From: Kris Holm <danger_uni@yahoo.com>
> >I believe that Daniel Hopkins in California had a set of cranks at one point
> >that had several holes in them for the pedals, for adjustment of crank
> >length. They were cotterless and intended for tandem bikes.

Re: Almost like gears…

In article <14570.43521.29122.265885@anvil.thehouse.org>, Seth Golub
<seth@aigeek.com> wrote:
>
>scott@enduco.com (Scott Bridgman) writes:
>
>> I would opt for multiple unicycles. Just select the one that’s correct for
>> the terrain.
>
>The funny thing about riding is that you go places, and sometimes the terrain
>isn’t the same where you end up as where you started.
>
>I’d also rather not have to spend an extra $50/month on a larger home just to
>store more unicycles.
>
>Special purpose equipment will always outperform for whatever single task it’s
>aimed at, but more versatile gear has advantages too.

I thought I remembered hearing about a 3-speed unicycle made with the hub of a
3-speed bicycle, with the planet gears inside. Supposedly it worked pretty well.


“Ballpark nachos – you don’t buy them, you just rent them.” – Hank Hill

Re: Almost like gears…

Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
>I thought I remembered hearing about a 3-speed unicycle made with the hub
>of a 3-speed bicycle, with the planet gears inside. Supposedly it worked
>pretty well.
>

Made by Bob & Sam Knight. I thought I had a picture in a back issue of The
Catch, but I’ve just had a look and the picture is of another machine that they
made later. The text accompanying the picture (from the June/July 1995 issue)
reads as follows:

“Looks good, eh? Don’t whatever you do try riding it, though. This is a geared
unicycle built by and for Bob & Sam Knight of Olney, Buckinghamshire it’s 27’
[Typo I think - DC] wheel gears up to 42’ equivalent, with 22/14 tooth ratio on
two fixed wheel sprockets, one either side. It’s very hard to ride (as we saw
the owners demonstrate at Norwich), impossible to do tricks on, almost too
difficult even to turn - but in a straight line it goes faster than you can run,
which is quite fast enough, thanks - this has got them banned from every Uni
race they’ve tried entering - plus Sam broke his arm coming off it at speed.
Anyway, that’s all we know so if you want to know more you’d better ring Bob &
Sam on [number snipped]. They’re not at all mad really”.

I tried riding the 27" at the BJC in Norwich (1995) - not a hope. They had the
uni with the Sturmey-Archer hub with them, but sadly I didn’t get to try
it. I don’t think I’ve seen them since.


Danny Colyer (remove your.head to reply)
http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny.html Getting out of bed is a terrible
way to have to start the day.

Re: Almost like gears…

I guess I’m confused as to why a gear hub would be so difficult. Did they forget
(or not know how) to disable the freewheel mechanism? Jim

Danny Colyer wrote:
>
(sip)
>
> I tried riding the 27" at the BJC in Norwich (1995) - not a hope. They had the
> uni with the Sturmey-Archer hub with them, but sadly I didn’t get to try
> it. I don’t think I’ve seen them since.

Re: Almost like gears…

I wrote:
>> I tried riding the 27" at the BJC in Norwich (1995) - not a hope. They
had
>> the uni with the Sturmey-Archer hub with them, but sadly I didn’t get to
try
>> it. I don’t think I’ve seen them since.

and J. Michaels replied:
>I guess I’m confused as to why a gear hub would be so difficult. Did they
>forget (or not know how) to disable the freewheel mechanism?

Now I’m confused. Did you reply to the right message? I didn’t write anything
about the hub gear being difficult, just that I didn’t get to try
it. The unicycle that I did try (the 27" geared up to 42") had no
gear changing mechanism, just a single chainwheel and a single
(smaller) sprocket.


Danny Colyer (remove your.head to reply)
http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny.html Getting out of bed is a terrible
way to have to start the day.

Re: Almost like gears…

Ooops…on my first read, I thought you were referring to hub gear ratios
instead of a different setup. Sorry for the confusion. Jim

Danny Colyer wrote:
>
> I wrote:
> >> I tried riding the 27" at the BJC in Norwich (1995) - not a hope. They
> had
> >> the uni with the Sturmey-Archer hub with them, but sadly I didn’t get to
> try
> >> it. I don’t think I’ve seen them since.
>
> and J. Michaels replied:
> >I guess I’m confused as to why a gear hub would be so difficult. Did they
> >forget (or not know how) to disable the freewheel mechanism?
>
> Now I’m confused. Did you reply to the right message? I didn’t write anything
> about the hub gear being difficult, just that I didn’t get to try
> it. The unicycle that I did try (the 27" geared up to 42") had no gear
> changing mechanism, just a single chainwheel and a single (smaller)
> sprocket.
>
> –
> Danny Colyer (remove your.head to reply)
> http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny.html Getting out of bed is a terrible
> way to have to start the day.

Re: Almost like gears…

Cat is out of the bag so to speak…

No Tony you are not crazy, I have for the past two month been working on such a
transmission. The protype turned out to be to heavy (read that as monentum). Let
me explain…

The first prototype, an octogan piece of steel stock with two pieces of the
octogan cut to form slides or linear bearings. I used rollerblade bearings
bolted to the slides so they contacted the octagon stock at the correct
angles the assembly was driven by a lead screw turned with a battery
operated screwdriver which was mounted to the back of the crank arm. This
helped in balancing the arm. The battery was mounted to the seat post the
switch being hand held. Two copper slip rings transmitted power to the motor
on command from the switch. The screw drive assembly would change the “crank
arm” length at will.

So much for the mechanism, now for reality. Take John Foss or any of the other
Muni’ers and you realize that the crank arms undergo alot of torsion. This being
the twisting action of the arm as us unicyclist crank away. I hooked my Zephyr
crank arms to an Instron machine( a machine which gives you a plot of load
versus extension) They started to deflect at 50 lbs of downward force on the
pedal. Not much force needed to twist the arm. Granted the deflectioin was small
but it was enough to effect the movement of a linear slide ie… throw the
bearings off of their track and dramatically increase the amount of torque
needed to move the slide. Okay enough of the the Mechanical Engineering for now.

I planned for this deflection in the first prototype. Or so I thought, turns
out that the octagon piece of stock needed to be hardened. The bearings would
cut a path into the octogan slide. Which further increased the torque required
from the poor screwdriver motor. Ah the trials of life. I never rode this
prototype. Throw in my 215 lbs, soft steel and you have disaster waiting to
take place. Back to the drawing board. Oh for you who are still reading this
and just need to know. My octagon crank started to deflect a 102 lbs of force
on the pedal. Throw in the slide mechanism and the deflection started a 30 lbs.
Can you say lever!?

Fortune smiled on me one Friday afternoon. I was at a salvage facility picking
through some electronic goodies, looking for a high voltage diode (I have a
fondness for high voltage) when I saw some beautiful linear bearing over in
another pile. Of course light bulbs went off and I realized I had the torsion
problems solved with these bad boys. They were 3/4 inch thick hardened rails
with ground groves for the linear bearings. Beautifull pieces and cheap. I
bought them for 25 dollars a set. The catalog price for the same set is 450
dollars!!! Needless to say I was in heaven, I rushed back to the lab, bearings
in hand and started in on the task of mounting them to the hub.

Ah such is life once again. As Rick Bissell our resident Mechanical Engineer
will attest to, hardened steel does not machine very easily. I would go so far
as to say that the hardened rails just stood there and laughed at my meager
efforts to cut a square hole in them to fit to the hub. I could have sent them
off to be EDM’ed, but I am not a patient fellow. So I drilled two mounting holes
in each Zephyr crank arm bolted the linear slides to them. machined two pieces
to hold the pedal on to the bearings attached the lead screws and set out for a
test ride.

Whoa nellie, we now get to the momentum part. Did I mention how much this
monster crank weighed. They tipped the scales at 25 lbs for the set. Not much
you say well start turning them at several RPMs and try to stop them. They
literally lifted me off of the seat. But they were rugged you could not get them
to twist. I dare say a whole crew of Muni’ers could not budge them. The screw
drive system worked perfectly, here is where I found out that you really do not
need alot of crank arm retraction before the uni becomes hard to move. Also to
much extension of the crank and you are singing soprano (read that as seat
height to pedal travel). A happy travel distance is 1 and a half inches to 2
inches total travel with this you go from really cranking hard with great speed.
To going really slow but crap loads of torque. Good for hill climbing. At the
small crank arm length is where I was reminded of the flywheel principal of
energy storage!!

Okay the end finally, In the works in a calmer slide, well more like a train
wheel than a slide. This helps cut weight, either a worm drive system (god those
are expensive) or a screw drive similar to your garage door opener to turn the
pedal through its arc.

Your should stick to electronics engineering, fellow unicyclist Joe

Re: Almost like gears…

Ive had 2 ideas on this topic…

  1. A crank with a sliding pedal that is sprung with carefully chosen springs so
    that the harder you pedal the longer your cranks get and the more torque you
    get. The cranks may need to be slanted for this (off set from the centre of
    rotation). This may limit your accel a bit though but would give an
    infinitely variable, automatic gear change system. Should be simpler and so
    lighter than joe’s high tech solution (though maybe more annoying).

  2. A system that uses the riders foot pressure to move the pedal to the selected
    position. Working on the theory that at the top of the stroke the pressure of
    the foot compresses the crank and at the bottom it tensions it. This would
    take a full revolution to make the change but so do regular bike gears.

Tom