All Creationist PLEAE read

Off-topic
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This isn’t a long post, but it is not incredibly short either, I please ask that you read the whole thing regardless of your Beliefs

About a year ago, I created a thread in JC involving intelligent design, I was a creationist at that time. I’ve always considered myself to be somewhat intelligent, I’ve had a lot of interest in Physics, Mathematics, and computers (programming mostly web based PHP, Javascript, Ajax, etc… also some Java and C++) I’ve never had an interesting in biology though, I did dabble in geology, and paleontology, but I wasn’t a young earth Creationist so that didn’t inhibit my beliefs in anyway.

I began having debates with Evolutionist, so I studied, mostly from Creationist sources, but the information was weak, it wasn't well written out, and it was full of holes, I wanted a good strong foundation I could stand on to combat Evolution, being who I am I decided to learn more about Evolution so I could defend against it, and defeat it. So I studied, I started at <a href="http://talkorigins.org/">talk origins</a>, and a few other websites I also read a few book on the subject, (Just random things I could find at my library) including <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Darwin-God-Scientist-Evolution/dp/0060930497/sr=1-1/qid=1158032087/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-3094712-0765436?ie=UTF8&s=books">Finding Darwin's God</a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Reconsidered-Search-Makes-Human/dp/0385467923/sr=1-1/qid=1158032105/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-3094712-0765436?ie=UTF8&s=books">Origins Reconsidered</a>, and <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Watchmaker-Evidence-Evolution-Universe/dp/0393315703/sr=8-1/qid=1158032036/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-3094712-0765436?ie=UTF8&s=books">The Blind Watchmaker</a>, to name my favorite. 

A great divide formed between Creationist books/papers, and that of Evolutionist, Evolutionist would always give references to papers where information was cited, they would have clear precise facts and data, they were scientist. Now i find books, and lectures by creationist to be childish, they don't give science for creation, they just attempt to prove evolution is wrong, by nit picking on often misread, or represented information, they rarely give references, and are often if not always wrong.

All I'm saying is this, if you are a Creationist, I beg you as a fellow Unicyclist, and once upon a time Creationist, please look at the information really understand what Evolution is,  I really didn't even understand Natural Selection, I thought I did, but I didn't. I believe my path to Evolution is a strange one, in an attempt to combat Evolutionist, I became one, but regardless of how I got here, I'm now happy I can finally see the truth.
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Beliefs in creation and evolution are not necessarily mutually exclusive. :roll_eyes:

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Sorry forgot the ‘S’ in PLEA’S’E

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Oh brother.

Question: can anyone name something about evolution that they believe to be %100 matter-of-fact true?

nothing vague, like “I belive evolution is true”, but real facts, etc.

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I’m glad you saw the light.
I’ve always wondered about the counter-argument for evolutionism (creationism) and how it made such little sense from a scientific/logical standpoint.

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indeed…

I believe 100% that the theory of evolution by natural selection is the only explanation we have for how we came to be as we are.

If you have an alternative explanation, I and lots of other folks would love to read it…especially if it is based on observable evidence.

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It’s nice to see old usenet is still doing some good…

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How can evolution be scientific when nothing has ever been “scientifically” observed to evolved/have evolved???

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are you kidding me?

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If you read my post, I said nothing vague, as in real facts please.

Nothing has been observed evolving…

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Well i suppose one could believe that God created the first Cell, which resulted in all of life, but the first cell is Chemical Evolution, or abiogenesis, not Biological Evolution. When I, or anyone else, says Evolution I think its understood that they mean Biological Evolution, unless otherwise stated.

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Why can’t I believe in both…?
I can.
And I do!

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That’s not the only way to share both views. For example, one could believe that God created life using the mechanisms of evolutionary theory, not that I necessarily believe that.

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Perhaps God created evolution.

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Okay random fact, humans cannot synthesize vitamin C, therefore we have to consume vitamin C, Dogs, Cats, and a slew of other animals do not have to consume Vitamin C there body’s produce it on there own. BUT humans contain the genetic Code to synthesize Vitamin C its just broken, strangely enough Monkeys have the EXACT same Gene, and it is Broken at the same point in the genetic Code, as humans. Guinea pigs also cannot create there own vitamin C, but there genetic code is broken at a different point, because well there genetic mutation was separate from that of us and our ancestors.

Why would this Gene Break? Genetic Mutations happen, no one doubts this, at some point in time one of our ancestors was born who could not synthesize vitamin C, but Natural Selection did not weed him out since, this had no effect on his lifestyle, because he was already eating a Diet rich in Vitamin C most likely he was living in tree’s, and had I high diet of vegetation, especially fruit. This was Evolution at work, although it wasn’t beneficial, nor was it a hinderence.

Thats why people are creating new Cells in labratorys to create things like hydrogen, and you have to get a new flue shot every year, and AIDS is so pesky since it likes to evolve a lot… Evolution happens rapidly in small organism, because the reproduce so quickly, but it does happen to larger macroscopic creatures.

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If you actually understand and accept evolutionary theory, then you can’t believe that.

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not even those drug resistant bacteria that we seem to have so much trouble dealing with? huh…I’m sure many doctors would like to believe you, but unfortunately you’re wrong.

You might want to read up on evolutionary theory, if you understood it, you would not make such statements.

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Yes! Exactly! Micro mutations within a cell or bacteria does not prove evolution! My point still stands, no dog has ever been observed evolving from a non-dog, and so on. Diseases mutate, but they don’t turn into anything else, just a different form of disease.
Like with breeding horses for example, you can produce different variations of a horse, but it’s still a horse!

What does that have to do with evolution? We have something similar to monkeys, big whoop. Humans have eyes, and birds have eyes, so does that prove we’re related to birds?

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Or is it just that you don’t want to believe it?

Main Entry: evo·lu·tion
Pronunciation: "e-v&-'lü-sh&n, "E-v&-
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin evolution-, evolutio unrolling, from evolvere
1 : one of a set of prescribed movements
2 a : a process of change in a certain direction : UNFOLDING b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : EMISSION c (1) : a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : GROWTH (2) : a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance d : something evolved
3 : the process of working out or developing
4 a : the historical development of a biological group (as a race or species) : PHYLOGENY b : a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations; also : the process described by this theory
5 : the extraction of a mathematical root
6 : a process in which the whole universe is a progression of interrelated phenomena

Let’s say this. Maybe God didn’t create the world in six Earth days, 24 Earth hours long each. Maybe he created it in six “days.” Has an old person ever started a story to you with, “back in my day…” Are they talking about one specific 24 hour day in their life? No! They’re talking about a specific period of time, which could have lasted like 50 years maybe, in this case. So maybe a day for God is just a time period, anything, maybe 1 million years. Meaning, the Earth was created in 6 million years. This is all just speculation of course. Since he only did a little bit in one day, or 1 million years. On the second day (according to the Bible) God created the sky. Sky is also known as the atmosphere. Therefore, in the second time period of 1 million years, gases were forming and being created and bubbling and oozing and steaming and everything. We (we being humans) would see this as a random process that just happened, whereas, it might not have just happened randomly by accident, but maybe it was done by an intelligent being, AKA God.

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We surely have observed evolution on this time scale…but we have to use the available evidence, which is fossils, DNA, etc.

Again, read up on evolutionary theory, it is very interesting, and does happen to be the only explanation we have for how we got to be as we are.