Okay, Unitort…So, you are interested in learning SIF,
Perhaps, “we” need to start a new string on this topic.
Have you attempted to learn, SIF:
1.) Riding
2.) Idling?
I’m sure you have tried it.
What is your experience, thoughts and injuries?
…slam
My experience indicates that a similar thickness of the sole seems to be the most important shoe related factor for me. Sole stiffness probably also plays a role, but as long as they‘re not too hard I seem to be fine with them.
But I agree that keeping as many parameters as possible unchanged helps in eliminating unnecessary challenges, which is a good thing when riding to acquire a new skill.
I only brought it up as part of musing about equal foot weight while idling, as an example of where it’d definitely be required. I’ll respond here but no need for a whole new thread on it unless it’s something you or others want to talk more about, I think. I’m definitely not the one to lead “teaching” it 
I can ride reasonably well SIF; I’m gradually working towards riding better, and relying less on the seat so I can ultimately learn seat-drag and “cranky” ultimate wheel. I’ve only occasionally tried idling on it; I haven’t put in much dedicated practice time on that.
I started working on it a bit after starting to get the hang of ultimate wheel, which is maybe a little strange. One might think it’d be easy if you can already ride ultimate wheel, but it’s not.
For me the initial breakthrough came when I started transitioning to SIF while already in motion instead of trying to ride from a stop, which I found much harder even with an assisted mount (I should think about circling back to learning that, actually). Initially I pushed the seat back into my stomach and “wrestled” it a bit with my arms but like I said I’ve been working on gradually relying on the seat less. Now I’m mostly gently hanging onto it and only occasionally putting some pressure on it for little adjustments.
No SIF injuries that I can think of (unlike ultimate wheel which gave me plenty of friction burns before I worked out good protection).
So, is it a bad idea to change unicycles in the process of learning something?
I have no indoor possibility 
Me too, so let’s not get too serious.
… and less weight on the saddle or on the bottom foot? Better unload the bottom foot, right? OK, I’ll try this in various ways.
All of my heavy boots have a toothy soles, which sometimes leads to falling to back due to the grip of the soles on the pedals. So I prefer the boots as on my video as less dangerous. I always use them, both in winter and in summer. Never change.
Thank you for your detailed and careful answer.
I think it can be both: It‘s an additional challenge because you leave the zone that you know well. On the other hand, if the difficulties that hinder your progress are related to the unicycle you are using, a change of that unicycle can be the ticket to progress…
I first tried learning to idle on my 26" uni, though once I fixed up my 20" it felt like I made progress twice as fast on that one compared to the bigger wheel
I learned it on a 20“ and feel this s probably the easiest size to learn. Not too much inertia like the bigger wheels, but not as nervous as the smaller ones.
I also tried to idle on my 20" today instead of usual 26". At first the things went worse, but after a short time everything went much better than with the 26" So, I’m leaning towards temporarily switching to the 20" uni to speed up my progress and then moving back to the 26".
But unfortunately, the bearing of one of the pedals fell apart. Several balls split in half.
Aaaw, Slam. Show the tiny wheels some love. Since the wheel of my 29er is really lose in the frame, my 16" is actually my best bet for idling. I actually don’t own a 20": I bought the 16" by mistake. The main difficulty of riding a 16" is actually the super low seat position, which I have fixed. I guess I should finally bother to swap the 45s with 75s but I sincerely have difficulties with idling:
I will continue as a renegade student, watching through the window. I found it really useful to put more pressure on my top foot, aiming for equal pressure. This helped a lot against my “banana”.
Hoo boy! If anyone can idle my 36er as it is currently set up, they can keep it.
Just a reminder to check your pedals…
I heard a weird noise when I bounced the uni on the floor this evening. Yep, both pedals loose.
I am trying to put more weight in the saddle, but the idling quickly becomes erratic and balance becomes my prime concern.
Oddly my idling is at it’s most stable when my mind is wondering…
Today I have started trying idling for other foot. I tried this in two ways.
Start Idling for usual side (for me it’s my left foot below) from usual rollback mount (left foot behind), do several Idles (5 in my case), then 1/2 rev forward, do the same qty of idles for other foot below, … etc.
Start Idling for unusual side (for me it’s the right one below) from other-sided rollback mount (right foot behind, which is also unusual for me).
Both methods work. But the unusual-sided idling still requires much more arm swinging. And I can do 5 idles max for this side in 2nd way (for the 1st way I never tried more than 5, next time I will).
Question - how do you count the number of idles, so when we say “idle 10 times” what does it mean?
I also idle stronger and mount better with my left foot. Learning the right foot, I used pretty much those techniques.
I count a pair of strokes (forward+backward) as one idle, so 10 idles means 10 strokes forwards+10 strokes backwards. An idle is a combination of movements which leads to the point you started from.
Some more idling practice this week, mostly on my 26" and 24".
I realized I’m relying more on swinging my arms than I thought I was, which helps explain why I can juggle while riding but not at all while idling.
So focus points have been:
Mixing in some backwards practice too - getting more tangible progress there TBH.
Incidentally I was out for a 36er road ride today and on a whim tried idling it a bit at the end. After a few tries I got a run of ~10ish idles. I decided to quit there while I’m ahead since I’d already cut my ride short due to my back acting up a bit.
Try idling before every dismount and it’s amazing the progress you will make.
This is my style of practice.
Hey Guys,
Great discussions going on to help each other.
There’s not much new information for me to teach you guys.
You know what to do at this point. Keep practicing.
However, the awareness that you can someday really minimize the extra motion involved to just your feet is the most important point. This will lead to SIF(seat in front) trick riding with a very reliable technique.
Anyways, my comments on all the chatter:
When I was a beginner, I had a rough time transitioning from 20"wheel & 125mm cranks to 24" wheel/150mm cranks. I didn’t realize I changed 4 variables: a.) wheel size leverage/inertia, b.) frame inertia c.)saddle height d.)crank length. I felt like I lost my unicycle powers, but a quick change in crank length to match and seat height made a big difference.
By the way, Unitort can ride backwards…that is great. I think I started a topic on that before, but then nobody replied back and it died. We can resurrect if anyone is interested. That trick is closely related to advanced idling, because applying “top foot pressure” is the key. My personal backwards learning method was very different and took a long time, but I know now that mastering idling is the fastest/safest way to learning backwards riding.
Broken pedal issues. Yes, reported by Hukuma who lost both pedals. I have experienced the same, but with only one pedal. Watch for this sign. I kept hearing a “clicking” sound when riding, and i thought it was a loose spoke. Then one day I fell down trying to free mount. I looked at the pedal and saw bearing balls spilling. Yes, watchout for that “clicking” sound, and then just “hand turn” the pedals. You will feel it before it breaks.
Here’s something I like to practice during idling. When you “rock back” try to stand up off the saddle and hold/pause for a moment. This requires instant pedal pressure equalization at 3 & 9 o’clock position(stable). No hands on saddle, because you really don’t need them to do this. After getting better you might even do a quick bunny hop.
Final practice tip. Don’t forget your “weak side”. Huku, mentioned practicing with both the other foot during idling and same side freemounting. Learn both sides. Especially, because you will get tired very quickly doing idle on one side.
…slam
Here’s a few observations.
It is much easier to go for equal pressure on the pedals. More weight in saddle will have to come later.
Check your tire pressure. I was idling on a nice bouncy tire pressure on a painted concrete floor. I did not think it would matter much. Increasing pressure closer to max will make the uni more responsive requiring less arm flailing.
This summer my idling style was frantic. Somewhere I got the advice to make a brief pause at the extreme of the oscillations. It made my style much more controlled but the oscillations larger. The large oscillations are not the goal but more control is a step on the way to advanced idling. 
Good advice, UniK.
-Higher tire press = quicker response.
Also, I would add:
-shorter cranks = quicker response(but stay with reasonable tire size 20-24…) when you get bigger it will wrestle you. Fighting inertia requires good balance and “waiting” a few fractions of a second after you apply force. Then the wheel or unicycle frame responds to your force input.
I really had a hard time when I got my “nice” 24" nimbus muni. I had learned on a 20" torker.
I was just so happy to finally have that nice $300 nimbus. However, I didn’t realize what a big change in mechanical geometry and dynamic reponse.
a.) 20" x 2" wide → 24" x 3" wide tire
b.) 14 lb Torker unicycle → 17 lb nimbus muni
c.) 5"(125mm) cranks → 6"(150mm) crank length.
Since, this topic was focused on “intermediate” idling riders, I skipped talking about any basics that beginners need to know for idling.
Here’s is one, because response seems to be a big deal. What’s the big deal you ask.
The quicker you go back/forth.
The more stable you can balance without falling.
It is like a pendulum motion, and the “heavy down pedal foot” acts like a ballast.
I hope that makes sense to any beginner reading this.
However, now for us intermediates → advance idling riders.
Now, you kinda do the opposite.
-back off and “reduce” that ballast
-rely more on the top foot to not only pilot(control direction), but also add weight.
-as you add weight to top foot, and less on bottom, at same time “equalize” you finally achieve more “body weight on seat feeling”.
…slam
