Actually, Now that I think of it JohnFoss!

This message is directed directly to JohnFoss. I don’t intend by any means to make you angry, but I am just putting up a defense to your reply to “My Website”:

First of all, you call your pictures copyrighted. I am thinking it could possibly be that you are telling the truth. I did not get these pictures off of your website, and this web site (Phils Ultimate Unicycle Site) had NO copyrights anywhere in it.

Secondly, even if I did violate any copyrights, you can’t do anything about it. If you try to sue me, you would have to:

  1. Find out where I live.
  2. What my real name is.
  3. Hire a lawyer.
  4. Start filing papers.

After this, you bring me to court and the judge will ask.

“What damages did you recieve from him putting these pictures on his website?”

You reply “none”

Then he will ask “Is the defendant making a profit off of these pictures?”

You reply “no”

Then, you have NO case.

All the judge would do is make me take the pictures off my site, and give me a bad reputation. If I’m not making any sort of profit off these pictures, you can’t do anything.

Third of all, I’m 13. I didn’t mean to upset you so much. I just wanted to add “cool” pictures to my site. I thought your pictures were AWESOME, so I took them. I was just trying to learn HTML code.

Fourthly, but not most important, you have the definition of intellectual property completely wrong:

As sited from Blacks Law Dictionary, Seventh Edition, by Bryan A. Garner COPYRIGHT 1999, page 813:

  1. A category of intangible rights protecting commercially valuable products of human intellect. The category comprises primarily trademark, copyright, and patent rights, but also includes trade secret rights, publicity rights, moral rights, and rights against unfair competition.
  2. A commercially valuable product of human intellect, in a concrete or abstract form, such as a copyrightable work, a protectable trademark, a patentable invention, or a trade secret. - Abbr. IP.

As far as I know, your DIDN’T copyright your work. If you are saying your picture is intellectual property, it isn’t. It’s physical.

-If you are asking yourself how a 13 year old is capable of knowing all this, my dad’s a lawyer.


Sorry dude, but you’ve got it wrong. Check title 17, chapter 1, section 102 of the United States Code. Copyright protection is provided for all original works. Regardless of whether it says so or not in the work. Period. There is no requirement to explicitly copyright your work. That is the law. Ask yer Dad.



It’s great to see some one so psyched about cycling that they want to share it with others; we will all benifit from your energy.

However, you’re on the butter-side-down-on-shag-carpet side of this -and you don’t have to be. John is a gracious and generous person, dedicated to unicycling -and he extended an invitation to contact him about useage instead of just slapping you down.

I’ve had my foot in mouth more times than I care to recall- which is why I can taste the lint between your toes purely via empathy. As a mater of fact, my kharma is so out of wack that I’ll take the bullet for you on this. While I’m washing the foul taste from my mouth, you might try lowering your defences- and make some friends. They’re right here ready to celebrate Joe his love of unicycling.



i dont see why john is mad . he should be glad that he thinks his pictures are rad aand are werthy of bieng on another web site .

thx alot,


First, John has both legal and moral rights to his work. Second, he does have a case, and almost everyone on this site can vouch that he had the pics first. I doubt if John would sue, the expense wouldn’t make up for it, but he does have a case. Third, you said that he’d have to find out where you live, and i’m guessing that it around “E.A., NY” as it says under your name. Just apolise to John, ask for permission, and put “Some pictures on this site were donated by JohnFoss (”. The least you could do would be to put his name in the links section

You should also put set up a page there about all the copyright issues you ran into, unknowlingly, including much of the feedback and comments that came from this forum. For historical purposes, of course :wink:

If MUni14052 or his “lawyer” dad had bothered to look at John Foss’ website longer than it takes to right click, Save Image As…, and Save, they’d have noticed that every photo on Mr. Foss’ site is copyrighted.

Some adults online (most of the ones on this forum) are friendly and accommodating towards children who use the Internet, but there are many less scrupulous adults online who are just there to prey… on anyone naiive enough to become a victim. It’s not all that impossible to find out anyone’s identity once they start actively using the Internet. If you’re comfortable with the idea that you’re invisible and invulnerable and can do what you want because your real name isn’t appearing on your monitor, well… maybe you should reconsider the use of your ZIPCODE in your username. “How creative!” :stuck_out_tongue:

If you’re an Internet predator wannabe, then militant attitudes about “intellectual property” are a really good start. If Kevin Mitnick is a hero for you, then you’re about five years behind the times.

Mr. Foss has already stated that you can “borrow” his photos with permission. In about three years, MUni14052, your dad is going to be expecting the same when you want to borrow his car. Get used to it. Be grateful, instead of snotty about it. Mr. Foss never mentioned anything about litigation, now, did he?

Now you’ve taken this defensive stance. You know you’re guilty, you’ve admitted it. Why are you trying to defend it? Didn’t your dad explain to you about published confessions?

I’ll ask you the same question I asked in the prior thread: I see your unicycle outside your house; it’s really awesome; so I take it. That’s OK, right? Especially if you don’t know my real name or where I live. I just wanted a cool unicycle, you know, to learn on. According you unibrow, you should be flattered that I admire your taste in unicycles enough to take yours!

Good luck with your website! I hope nobody ever lifts your work from it and uses it without your permission!

You guys keep saying you know where I live. You know what town, and zipcode. No street Address.
Finally, I think I should stop giving these posts. I’m getting in over my head with people taking JohnFoss’s side.:frowning:

I think I will shut up now! :wink:

Re: Actually, Now that I think of it JohnFoss!

gluteous maximus wrote:
> If MUni14052 or his “lawyer” dad had bothered to look at John Foss’
> website longer than it takes to right click, Sa_v_e Image As…, and
> _S_ave, they’d have noticed that every photo on Mr. Foss’ site is
> copyrighted.

Yeah, but MUni14052 has already stated that he got the pictures from
somewhere else. Sure, perhaps he should have credited wherever he got the
pictures from [1], but that itself may have been a site that didn’t credit
JF or mention any copyright.

BTW Joe, those links look a lot better now.

[1] I usually ask permission and give credit when using someone else’s
pictures myself, but IMHO anything posted on www without a copyright notice
is in the public domain and can be used freely.

Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( )
Recumbent cycle page:
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” - Thomas Paine

sorry buddy

I am not really the one to bust on other people. But, on your website, under all off those pictures is shows in caption,
<These are just a group of unicycles I pulled together off of>

  But, in this thread you said that you didn't get them from, that you got them from somwere else. 

  So make up your mind, and don't be so defencive!

All you needed to do is ask, and he said that you could ask him.

    Thank you,

i though that john was being a bit harsh, but it’s your response has made me re-think my position.
copyright law is for corporations to exploit consumers. not for people to use as a defense for having bad websites that use other peoples content without permission.

forget the facts of copyright legislation, your just being rude.

Re: Actually, Now that I think of it JohnFoss!

In article <auvk9d$fe9$>,
Danny Colyer <> wrote:
)[1] I usually ask permission and give credit when using someone else’s
)pictures myself, but IMHO anything posted on www without a copyright notice
)is in the public domain and can be used freely.

Your “humble opinion” is not supported by the law or the courts.
You can believe whatever you want, of course.

No defense, but why is your e-mail
Please tell me " Privitera" is not your last name
Just wondering

Re: Actually, Now that I think of it JohnFoss!

humble? I always though IMHO stood for in my honest opinion… woops.


Come now!

Could we all just calm down a little? It’s a few pics! I think a community such as ours should be a little more passive about these sorts of things.

Though, it was a bit rude to steal the pics like that. Next time, I sugest asking for permission. That way things like this won’t happen.

Now can we worry less and ride more?

Other than pics I couldnt find any others that look like any from John Foss’s site.
Did he take them down?

Re: Actually, Now that I think of it JohnFoss!

I wrote:
> )[1] I usually ask permission and give credit when using someone else’s
> )pictures myself, but IMHO anything posted on www without a copyright
> )is in the public domain and can be used freely.

Tom Holub responded:
> Your “humble opinion” is not supported by the law or the courts.
> You can believe whatever you want, of course.

I’d be interested to know if there is any specific UK legislation making
this clear (foreign legislation is of little interest to me, though US
legislation will of course be relevant to Joe).

My opinion reflects what was generally accepted as the legal status when I
started creating webpages in 1994. I know there have been moves since then
to clarify www copyright, but AFAIK nothing ever came out of it.

Time for a Google search, methinks.

OK, The Patent Office states that, under UK law, copyright is now extended
to items published on www:

Interesting, and worth remembering.

Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( )
Recumbent cycle page:
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” - Thomas Paine

I couldn’t help but notice that John Foss hasn’t even responded to this post. :stuck_out_tongue: (sorry…just found it slightly funny)

Re: Actually, Now that I think of it JohnFoss!

I’ll start off by noting you are not claiming you didn’t know these were my images, or at least that you didn’t know who they belonged to. There are two things directly connected to this:

  1. Most of my online images are hosted not on, but on the Ofoto Web site. But you can only reach them from the Photo Albums section of my site, which contains my copyright info. I think I may reword some of it though, because it’s mostly intended for the press, and not other unicyclists that may also want to use my work. I will make it more inviting for you.

  2. Phils Ultimate Unicycle Site:

Yup, he definitely has those images. He also now has an email from me asking him the same thing I asked you. I also gave him the links to these forum discussions so he can read along if he’s interested. Phil also has to answer to the owners of a couple of other Kris Holm images.

But you took them down anyway, which was the right thing to do. Optionally you could, instead of writing this, say something like “Oops, sorry about that,” which many others have done, and then work out a permission with me which would include a photo credit and link to my site, or something similar.

What else could I do about it? I could notify the unicycling community, through this forum and elsewhere, that MUni4052 is a wiener, continuing to use someone else’s images without giving them credit. But you’re not a wiener for that, because you already took them down.

BZZZZZ. Wrong answer. You would be the one getting told you have no case. The rules on this are well documented, but I don’t have a convenient link to offer here or I would. It’s all out there on the Web.

I assumed you were about 13 and I was not upset. This has happened many times before, and I was offering feedback on your site. As a professional HTML’er myself, I like to help out new people. Learning about copyrights is the main lesson here.

Imitation is surely the sincerest form of flattery, so I appreciate that. But “so I took them” is the part you can’t legally do. Not only do you get to learn about this, we all get to stir a big pot of copyright controversy at RSU!

I’m glad you are taking the advice. I noticed the blue text on black is also gone, replace by stuff that is much more readable. Now your text is kind of hard to read against the background image, but not as bad as before.

Are you making this statement before or after reading through my Web site? I believe there is a link to the copyright statement at the bottom of every page.

I wasn’t asking. I knew a thing or two when I was 13, even outside the area of my father’s occupation. Obviously your dad doesn’t specialize in copyright law.

There are various levels of copyright protection. My photos are only covered by the most basic level, what I’ll call “automatic” protection. One can apply for more stringent and legally binding records of copyright, but anything I produce, unless I specify that it’s for the public domain, remains my property. That’s the short answer, with lots of much longer variations and possibilities on it.

In my work I do lots of Web content for Intel Corporation. Their trademark is worth about a billion dollars, and they are very picky about protecting it. For me that means strict usage of ® and ™, every time, and in all the right places. If a trademark or other property is not protected, it can drift into the public domain. By asking people to acknowledge ownership of my photos wherever they’re used, I am working to protect myself from this.

I guess you’re getting more than you asked for on the feedback on your Web site! I didn’t mean for it to turn into this philosophical discussion, but you gotta admit, it’s a learning experience.

Today I will try to work on my copyright info to make it more inviting for people who want to make casual use of my images, thanks to you!

If someone publishes something, the basic copyright laws apply if it was orignally there as well, or if they’re the first to publish it and it isn’t copyrighted. I hope this works out between you too. Take Care.