Black Widow Cranks
Aren’t those Black Widow cranks square tapered? I wouln’t touch Square Tapered Cranks for tough Muni.
Unicorn
The thing I notice most when I ride a 24" muni without a LM rim is how snappy and responsive the wheel is without that additional rotating mass.
The LM is a tank, and if you prioritize responsiveness and low weight above stability and demolition resistance (perhaps good for a muni/trials crossover configuration), it is one of the last rims you should be looking to add.
With that said, I’ve been running a LM 24" for over a year on extensive technical downhill, and I’d never go back.
I was just wanting to get the price range more accurate for those who may want to buy from UDC (Most do); and to many, even that [$25] might be a deciding factor. And when AE bike had them, and may once again, the '07 KH muni was only $417!
And yes, the difference in weight between the two rims is about 1 pound, but I’d rather have that extra pound in the wheel than in the seat! Again, after the upgrade to all the CF parts and lighter thompson seatpost, the Muni is still lighter and stronger than the stock version. That’s certainly not a “nit-picky” result. 
And as Entropy testifies above, the LM is way more stable and resistant to damage than the skinnier KH drilled rim, so that little extra weight is welcome. Yay, time to go ride!!! (Don’t worry, be happy Tod! 
)
Pwnd +1!
An extra pound in the wheel negatively affects the performance characteristics of the unicycle a lot more than an extra pound in the seat. The seat is practically at the center of gravity of the whole system; do you think a one-pound weight strapped to your wrist or a one-pound weight strapped to your chest would affect you more?
I can only go by experience. From the very moment I test rode John Long’s Muni–‘07 like mine right down to the drillium pedals–except he had the LM rim and SW CF saddle components, the difference in stability was immediately and strikingly apparent. It also felt light as a feather compared to mine! We’d been at Venice Mountain for a while and I just didn’t feel confindent enough on my KH muni to do a nearly 6’ drop, even with all the encouragement from John.
Then I tried his Muni and immediately did the drop with full confidence! Several times! I rode it around for a while longer doing other lines and drops, then mounted my muni and it instantly felt wobbly and unstable by comparison! John simply said that he’s told people about how great the LM is, but if they don’t try it they’ll never know! I know.
Btw, most of the uni’s weight is in the wheel anyway. The KH’s Alum cranks are lighter than steel I’d bet, and the frame being alum is also lighter than steel, so maybe the 1lb difference between the LM and drilled rim on the KH is a wash compared to a lot of much heavier Munis out there, like the torker DX.
An anvil is more stable than a pencil, but I wouldn’t want to try to write a letter with one.
I totally understand why the guys bombing the SoCal trials use the hardware they do, but there’s no denying that it is frickin’ heavy and not suited to doing much other than bombing down the SoCal trails.
Not pwnd. I said almost exactly what entropy said.
Umm…duh?
But hey, it’s awesome that you’re improving your unicycle and customizing it to how you like it. We can talk and talk, but you’re the one out there using the equipment, so do what feels best .
get a KH 24 and put koxx cranks on it. They have no q-factor and are strong.
(the biggest they come in is 160mm so idk if thats a problem)
no, most MUni’s have 150s on them now, so 160s shouldn’t be a problem
There ya go. But I know how people want to think that their setup is ideal, and that a setup such as mine, (which is the same as two of the very best Muni’ers out there have, and many more) is too heavy or whatever to justify them not even trying it, based on assumptions rather than actual in-saddle experience. But yeah, whatever works best for you. But just saying that the LM is “heavy” is like dismissing it out of habd before you even have experience on it to make an informed opinion/conclusion. The proof’s in the pudding, and again, in my experince having epxerienced riding the standard rim and the LM, the latter is the winner by far… IMO
Again I disagree big time. Are you speaking from experience having ridden a '07 KH muni with CF saddle components and the LM? If not, or not much, I’ll be bringing it to CMW and you and anyone else will be welcome to try it out and see whether you like it or not; I strongly suspect the former. Of course there might be a few who won’t admit they prefer it or even like it, but that’s cool too.
All I’m saying is that I have ridden this setup and it’s FRICKIN awesome! (To use your term) It’s lighter overall and quite maneuverable, at least for me. But hey, while it works beautifully for me, and many of the very best Muni-ers out there, it may not be your cup of tea.
But to say “it’s not suited to doing much other than bombing down the SoCal trails”, is your opinion, and certainly not the case for me. I can do everything with this setup, and more, than with the previous standard setup.
THe cool part is, I also have an '05 KH muni that has the standard rim and saddle components, so I have that too as a backup, but I suspect it’s gonna be gathering a lot of dust!
oh, terry what tire are you using on your LM? I think the duro and Kujo are sweet on the LM, but the gazz is like riding an endo. Oh well, have fun with your setup, I’m getting a LM soon!
I found this from a couple years back when the 24" LM was first introduced. “Surly Dave” pretty much sums it up below:
SurlyDave vbmenu_register(“postmenu_288231”, true);
Surly MC
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 54
[B]24" Large Marge Weight[/B]
Yep. They are heavy. [B]But, the stability offered by such a wide rim can make up for the mass. [/B]Those who have ridden the 26" Marge can attest to the increase in traction and stability it provides. It will change the performance traits of any tire you are accustomed to riding on a narrower rim. [B]Maybe, you'll like it....maybe, you won't. It really depends on your riding style and tire profile preferences. [/B]
Cheers,
Dave
Actually I think he was just saying it was heavy. It’s heavy. If it “feels” lighter, then you’ve moved away from the world of ‘it weighs this much’ into opinion. Which is fine. I can’t wait to try yours at CMW. I know I like the heavy wheel on my 24" Wilder a lot better than the much lighter wheel on my 29er in MUni mode.
Do you ride it uphill much?
I’ve been running the gazz on my narrower KH drilled rim, but with the LM, it won’t fit with the maguras, so, like vivalargo, I’ll be running the Duro 24x3, which is actually preferrable since it will corner much easier than the gazz. It’s also about $50 LESS than the $74 24x3 gazz!
Also, the gazz was preferred on the narrower rim to give the wheel more width, but the LM/duro combo make the standard drilled KH rim/gazz combo seem downright skinny by comparison!
You can also use considerably less psi with the Lm and it will roll over just about anything with ease! I can’t wait for my setup to be complete, which should be by early next week!
I’ve ridden Josh’s MUni. I wouldn’t lug that thing around, probably not even if I lived in SoCal. I use a KH XC with a Kenda 2.6" tire, and it’s probably five pounds lighter than Josh’s MUni. I switched to that setup from a fairly heavy 26x3" Profile setup, that was still quite a bit lighter than Josh’s MUni, and while I still have the 26x3" hanging in my garage, these days it’s only a loaner.
Yeah the XC is certainly lighter, but that’s a different uni and not on topic. The KH trials is lighter than the XC. Ok.
The single pound that I’m gaining with the LM is offset by at least that amount I shave off by uprading to the CF components. Unlike some, seemingly yourself included, the added weight of the LM doesn’t adversly affect my riding one iota, but it pays off in dividends with increased stabilty, traction, and overall performance.
I’ll say it again, my '07 KH muni is lighter with the LM/CF setup, than with the standard rim and saddle/parts. LIGHTER! By “lugging around” are you referring to when you have to hike with it on the steeps, or just riding it in general? Since Mine is lighter than before, it would be easier to “lug” it around if need be.
Tell you what, you don’t have to ride, or like the LM; Just ride the configuration that suits you and your style of riding best, and I’ll do the same. Fair?
“Stability” is a code word for “won’t turn.” The Titanic was stable. If you hop everywhere, the ability to control the wheel doesn’t matter that much (It’s not rotating weight if it’s not rotating, right?). I roll, I don’t hop riding MUni, and it makes a big difference to me.
Go ahead, ride it, have fun. I’ll stick with mine.
Haha, maybe your “code word”, but not mine!
I understand that you don’t do much extreme stuff, like 6 foot drops and such, but my Muni actually “turns” way smoother and easier with the LM/Duro 3.0 combo than the narrow KH rim/gazz (square tread) combo. Yeah I “hop” and do the big drops and stuff, but i do plenty of “rolling” muni as well; 5 miles worth each and every day on tech trails! (Longer rides on the weekends, and 25 miles on the coker too…weeeeee! )
We could go on like this but the time has come to play, “you bet your Muni!” Haha. Just enjoy what you have man! I’m going for my daily muni ride, how’bout you?:D:) 