a purely theoretical question about gear ratios for a unicycle

[B]I have never rode a Schlumpf, but I am curious as to what behavior your are talking about. Isn’t the frame always a lever? The frame holds the weight (me) above the pivot point (axle).

So is a Schlumpf in the 1:1 gear ratio much harder to ride than a conventional unicycle? I understand there will be a little bit of slop in the drive train, and a bit more weight. Anything else?[/B]

Yes, it is a lever. But you don’t notice when riding. And it’s nothing that affects the stability of the frame. In early days of geared unicycles there was much discussion about that torque effect. People suspecting it would bend the frame, or make the unicycle unridable as the frame would be forced forth or back resulting in immediate dismounts. But nothing of that happened.

You feel the additional weight, especially when riding uphill or downhill.
Then there is some axle tolerance. That is something you notice, but it does not interfere with riding. It kind of feels like a loose crank. But you get used to it quite soon. The only thing you need to be careful about is when the crank actually comes loose. That is harder to notice compared to a non-geared hub.

A Schlumpf in 1:1 gear is more or less like a normal unicycle; somewhat heavier and with a bit of slop, but not anything you’d have a problem with.

A Schlumpf in high gear is significantly different than a normal unicycle. A 24" Schlumpf is much harder to ride than a 36" ungeared Coker, despite the gear ratio being similar. That’s partly because when you’re in high gear, the frame is constantly pushed forward by the lever action of the hub; learning to counteract that action is a skill that takes many hours of riding to perfect, and for me it still causes difficulty in situations like riding down steep hills under braking.

Really? I personally can’t notice that effect on a geared 29" or smaller. On a geared 36" I think I can feel it when I pay attention. But it is nothing I need to care about when riding.

I don’t notice it when I’m riding normally, but I definitely notice it when I’m starting up from a start, when I’m riding technical off-road, or when I jump, among other things.

Then you need the DACKOROMAN DRIVES SYSTEM

sorry, couldn’t resist

Yes, but they don’t contribute to instability because of the second wheel, lower pedal rpm, ability to coast, lower center of gravity, and other aspects of the frame’s geometry.

Never did things like technical off-road riding or jumping in high gear. Maybe I should try …

Live Wire High Gears

Live Wire Unicycles one made a unicycle witha 4:1 ratio! It was raced on a track.

I think that learning to master higher gear ratios is easier that learning how to ride.

The first time I tried a KH with a Shlump gear it only took me about 7 tries to actually start riding it some distance. Within ten minutes I was riding it cross country. The higher gears are different but once you get used to them they become second nature.

Unicorn

The action of pedaling a bike definitely contributes to instability, though less dramatically than it does for unicycles. See Socrates and Berkeley Scholars Web Hosting Services Have Been Retired | Web Platform Services

Bikes have steps ranging from 33% on a three speed to ~15-20% on multigeared mountain bikes. A Rohloff Speed Hub has fourteen 13.6% steps (speeds):

http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/

Because a uni does not have the stability of a bike (two wheels, bars), controlling the additional “torque” that is required to push the pedals in high gear on a uni leads to descreased stability. That instability is amplified by having a smaller wheel. The only way to increase stability in high gear is to spin faster, which reduces torque. This reminds me of a HP vs Torque, discussion in automobiles, each use having an advantage/disadvantage for different applications.

For muni, since we are often riding slow, climbing, and working over obstacles, the application and control of torque is going to be a key issue, whereas on a road/touring uni, HP is more applicable, at least on the flats.

Shifting a Schlumpf is not hard, but it is akward, and if you miss your shift it can be a pita. If we had multiple gears, more than three, I’d think that this would necessitate a remote shifter.

Someone, I can’t remember who, asked me a very important question when I was considering a Schlumpf:

“Do you really want to go faster on the trails you ride?”
My answer then was “yes”.

Now that I own a guni, My answer now is “no”.
I can go plenty fast on trails with a 29er :slight_smile:

Anyone want to buy my 26Guni?

Do you know of some mechanical reference other than the frame with which to do this? I’m not trying to argue with you, I’m just not seeing another way to do it. If there is a way then the geared ultimate wheel would be realizable.

I was only sort of kidding, but when he finally released his designs they used the pedals as the lever arm.

not saying it is a good idea, but it wouldn’t induce frame bob

remark: if I were to ask for a geared uni it will be to gear down not to gear up.
this because climbing is difficult for me (specially for muni) Do you think that balance could be thus affected as it is when gearing up?

Eric-

I think I pointed out in a post to DAKOROMAN that his pedal system would have to be necessarily quite massive. Although it wouldn’t tug at the frame, as you point out, the massive gear-pedal system would accentuate the wobble you see when you spin a unicycle wheel with one hand while holding the frame in the other hand.

yup, his idea is completely impractical and fraught with problems.

gered ultimate wheel could be done without the DACOROMAN system though. unfortunately the drawings disappeared and I don’t have the originals anymore.

All just fun stuff to think about.

Having gears on a unicycle are not as practical as one would think. I didn’t “get it” until I spent some time on a guni. For many applications, it makes more sense to choose your wheel size based on the terrain, crank length, brakes, etc all help to maximize efficency.

It was for this reason that I once suggested a fixed geared hub with the option of a low or high gear. This would allow someone to ride a 36er off road for instance, where a 1:1 would be prohibitive but where a tall wheel is desired for rolling efficiency.

Then again, a Schlumpf reduction hub would be cool to :smiley:

Of course, things that aren’t easy are no fun at all, right? :wink:

Slightly off-topic, but as Eric mentioned it: I intended to build a pair of “real” Dakoroman cranks after I made the Lego model, but it never happened because I found out how ridiculously expensive sensible sized gears are - it was going to cost me something like £200 to put together a fairly crude pair, and I’m not prepared to put that sort of money into something essentially useless (sorry Dako). I may still do it if I find some gears - I’ve pretty much got the rest of the stuff I need lying around.

On the subject of highest gear, I forgot about Pete Perron’s machine (whoever mentioned LiveWire, AFAIK they licensed the design from Pete later and offered them for sale).

Rob

I couldn’t find this in google, so I am guessing it is an inside joke.
Care to explain?

Doh! As soon as I posted my last question, I saw the correct spelling, and all the info on it. Dakoroman.