Last Friday the long awaited package from unicycle.com arrived: a KH24
frame and wheel. I put it together Saturday morning and had a nice first
ride around the disc golf course that afternoon. The real test came
Sunday. We rode the steep and technical trail called Dead Camper, plus the
Santa Cruz standards Numbers and Lock 'Em Up. I didn’t setup the brake
yet, but what a ride! Everything works - I felt like a better rider - I
didn’t crash - I love it. David and I went FULLSPEED down Lock 'Em Up -
incredible. It wasn’t all the frame and wheel though. Since August I’ve
been using a “Reeder handle” made by George Barnes. On the steepest
sections I was pulling on that handle SO hard and it was great - total
control with no hand soreness afterwards. At some points it felt like I
was leaning back at a 45 degree angle pulling on that handle, slipping and
bouncing down the trail. A unicycle frame looks pretty simple at first
glance, but this one really works.
I’ve been riding a Wilder 6160C for the last few months and it is
absolutely fantastic for climbing - I know the KH24 must be heavier, but
climbing seemed just about as good. David and I had a one-foot endurance
race, and that flat crown is just what the doctor ordered! Now I just
need to learn to glide to truly take advantage of it. I also have to go
on a ride that requires lots of hopping to see how noticeable the extra
weight is.
It’s great to see how many innovations have happened in the last couple of
years. It was just 4 years ago that Bruce made the first prototype Hunter
(David rode that very frame on both rides this weekend) and Geoff made his
first prototype Telford. But those had skinny tires with Miyata or
Viscount seats and hubs that broke on terrain that was nothing like Dead
Camper. What a change!
Thank-you Kris and John Drummond and everyone else who helped make this
a reality.
—Nathan
PS We also confirmed the rumor that the “Better than Northshore” trail has
been destroyed. Terrible job of it too.
Dead Camper may soon be renamed Dead Bicyclist. We watched two
teenagers on mondo-downhill bikes blasting down, without helmets. One
of them crashed hard too…
I don’t ride the Telford anymore since I can’t wheel walk on it. That may
sound lame, but it’s true. Plus my wife really wanted it (and she loves
it). I think the weight is about the same as the KH, but the KH feels like
it might be a little stiffer - difficult to tell since you have to set
both up with the same seat, pedals and wheel and they don’t have the same
bearing sizes :(. I think it’s hard to review just a frame - the whole
unicycle is what you ride.
> I think it’s hard to review just a frame - the whole unicycle is what > you ride.
In general I would have to agree with that. I think the main difference
between frames alone is whether or not they are twisty. Even then, if the
twisting doesn’t cause undue wear or the tire to rub, this may not bother
riders on trails (it does make a difference to me in Freestyle).
The other difference to be aware of is fork crown. The obvious advantage
to the KH frame is a good platform for one-footing. Also, compared to a
Telford, it’s a better frame for sideways wheel walking (barrel-rolling,
to make some of you happy).
Beyond this there might be issues of width or protrusions. Do your legs
bang against the fork? This was a problem with some of the hand-built
suspension fork unicycles out there. Oval tubing (or flat steel) will
stick out less than fat circular (or square) tubing.
But I don’t think there is an issue with MUni frames on strength.
Anybody breaking frames out there? Unless you stand on them from the
side, or do lots of massive drops, I don’t think we have a problem with
frame breakage.
Well, I once broke a Semcycle Deluxe frame on a MUni ride…it snapped
right above the bearing holder. But it was Bruce’s, which kind of
explains it…
—Nathan
“John Foss” <john_foss@asinet.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1011134118.15058.rsu@unicycling.org… > But I don’t think there is an issue with MUni frames on strength. > Anybody breaking frames out there? Unless you stand on them from the > side, or do lots of massive drops, I don’t think we have a problem > with frame
breakage. > > Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
Frame strength isn’t a huge issue- most frames are redundantly strong with
some exceptions as Nathan pointed out:).
But frame stiffness is a big issue if brakes are used. When climbing
hills, there are side-to-side lateral forces generated. If the frame isn’t
laterally stiff, this can cause the brake pads to alternately drag against
the rim. Also, the stiffer the frame, the more braking power you get on
the downhills (or the easier it is to obtain a desired braking power).
-Kris. — Nathan Hoover <nathan@movaris.com> wrote: > Well, I once broke a Semcycle Deluxe frame on a MUni ride…it snapped > right above the bearing holder. But it was Bruce’s, which kind of > explains it… > > —Nathan > > “John Foss” <john_foss@asinet.com> wrote in message > news:mailman.1011134118.15058.rsu@unicycling.org… > > But I don’t think there is an issue with MUni frames on strength. > > Anybody breaking frames out there? Unless you stand on them from the > > side, or do lots of massive drops, I don’t think we have a problem > > with frame > breakage. > > > > Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone > > > ___________________________________________________________________- > ________ > rec.sport.unicycling mailing list - > www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu
> Frame stiffness is also important with a big wheel like a Coker. My > wheel rubs vigorously against the frame whenever I climb or descend on > my Coker.
Yes, this is an important factor missing from my list from earlier today.
But we need a more specific word than “stiffness” because that could mean
many things. Here are the main types of movement in a unicycle frame:
Forward to back force: This is like if you come down hard on the tip
of the seat, or stand on your unicycle frame with the wheel upright
and the seat on the ground. Not usually a factor in standard frames,
but a common area of bending on giraffes (especially if you do
running mounts).
Twisting force: This is what’s applied to the frame when you pedal (or
brake) hard. A crude way of testing this is to squeeze the wheel tightly
between your legs, and use your hands to try to twist the seat side to
side. This twisting force is tremendous, because it’s essentially the
full force of your strongest muscles being applied to the frame
(especially if you hold the seat). Depending on the design, this force
can put wear and tear on bearings. On some old (or not so old) Schwinns
you can see the twisting movement between the frame, bearing, and axle.
Vertical force: This is the stiffness against gravity, holding you up.
If your frame has trouble in this area, you’ve got a big problem. It
should not be an issue if the other areas are covered.
Side to side flexing force: This is what David Maxfield was talking
about, and is especially noticeable on big wheels, where the frame is
much longer. The axle and bearings are part of the structure that needs
to hold your frame stiff from side to side movement. Otherwise your
tire hits the fork as the frame flexes. My big wheel has this problem,
as well as most Schwinns. This is the other major force on a unicycle
frame and, as Kris pointed out, I guess it’s very important in
conjunction with brakes. On a bike, you are seldom pedaling when you
use the brake so it’s not the same. On a unicycle, the brake is usually
used along with very hard pedaling, so any flex in the frame will make
your braking uneven.
I hope this adds a little to the engineer’s area for future frame design.
You guys build 'em, I’ll ride 'em!
My next frame will probably be a Wilder. Why? Because the aluminum is so
light and elegant. And because I have other unicycles for one-footing; I
hardly ever do it on my MUnis.
> Frame stiffness is also important with a big wheel like a Coker. My > wheel rubs vigorously against the frame whenever I climb or descend on > my Coker.
Yes, this is an important factor missing from my list from earlier today.
But we need a more specific word than “stiffness” because that could mean
many things. Here are the main types of movement in a unicycle frame:
Forward to back force: This is like if you come down hard on the tip
of the seat, or stand on your unicycle frame with the wheel upright
and the seat on the ground. Not usually a factor in standard frames,
but a common area of bending on giraffes (especially if you do
running mounts).
Twisting force: This is what’s applied to the frame when you pedal (or
brake) hard. A crude way of testing this is to squeeze the wheel tightly
between your legs, and use your hands to try to twist the seat side to
side. This twisting force is tremendous, because it’s essentially the
full force of your strongest muscles being applied to the frame
(especially if you hold the seat). Depending on the design, this force
can put wear and tear on bearings. On some old (or not so old) Schwinns
you can see the twisting movement between the frame, bearing, and axle.
Vertical force: This is the stiffness against gravity, holding you up.
If your frame has trouble in this area, you’ve got a big problem. It
should not be an issue if the other areas are covered.
Side to side flexing force: This is what David Maxfield was talking
about, and is especially noticeable on big wheels, where the frame is
much longer. The axle and bearings are part of the structure that needs
to hold your frame stiff from side to side movement. Otherwise your
tire hits the fork as the frame flexes. My big wheel has this problem,
as well as most Schwinns. This is the other major force on a unicycle
frame and, as Kris pointed out, I guess it’s very important in
conjunction with brakes. On a bike, you are seldom pedaling when you
use the brake so it’s not the same. On a unicycle, the brake is usually
used along with very hard pedaling, so any flex in the frame will make
your braking uneven.
I hope this adds a little to the engineer’s area for future frame design.
You guys build 'em, I’ll ride 'em!
My next frame will probably be a Wilder. Why? Because the aluminum is so
light and elegant. And because I have other unicycles for one-footing; I
hardly ever do it on my MUnis.
> Frame stiffness is also important with a big wheel like a Coker. My > wheel rubs vigorously against the frame whenever I climb or descend on > my Coker.
Yes, this is an important factor missing from my list from earlier today.
But we need a more specific word than “stiffness” because that could mean
many things. Here are the main types of movement in a unicycle frame:
Forward to back force: This is like if you come down hard on the tip
of the seat, or stand on your unicycle frame with the wheel upright
and the seat on the ground. Not usually a factor in standard frames,
but a common area of bending on giraffes (especially if you do
running mounts).
Twisting force: This is what’s applied to the frame when you pedal (or
brake) hard. A crude way of testing this is to squeeze the wheel tightly
between your legs, and use your hands to try to twist the seat side to
side. This twisting force is tremendous, because it’s essentially the
full force of your strongest muscles being applied to the frame
(especially if you hold the seat). Depending on the design, this force
can put wear and tear on bearings. On some old (or not so old) Schwinns
you can see the twisting movement between the frame, bearing, and axle.
Vertical force: This is the stiffness against gravity, holding you up.
If your frame has trouble in this area, you’ve got a big problem. It
should not be an issue if the other areas are covered.
Side to side flexing force: This is what David Maxfield was talking
about, and is especially noticeable on big wheels, where the frame is
much longer. The axle and bearings are part of the structure that needs
to hold your frame stiff from side to side movement. Otherwise your
tire hits the fork as the frame flexes. My big wheel has this problem,
as well as most Schwinns. This is the other major force on a unicycle
frame and, as Kris pointed out, I guess it’s very important in
conjunction with brakes. On a bike, you are seldom pedaling when you
use the brake so it’s not the same. On a unicycle, the brake is usually
used along with very hard pedaling, so any flex in the frame will make
your braking uneven.
I hope this adds a little to the engineer’s area for future frame design.
You guys build 'em, I’ll ride 'em!
My next frame will probably be a Wilder. Why? Because the aluminum is so
light and elegant. And because I have other unicycles for one-footing; I
hardly ever do it on my MUnis.
I have a question obtaining to braking on the KH24 frame. At unicycle.com it is sold with a Sun Doublewide rim. Does this rim have a good braking surface? I believe that it was designed for disc brakes and therefore I am skeptical. Also, I think that I have seen on pictures of Kris and his unicycle that he has sanded the edges of his rim. Does this help much and how is it done so that the rim is not damaged/weakened in the process. Just some thoughts.
-Bert
I’m not sure how Kris took the paint off his rim, but I used a
drill-attached wire brush. This made the braking smoother and removed the
annoying squeak. You have to be careful not to apply too much pressure
because it will eat into the metal. This didn’t seem to weaken the rim
because I was careful not to gouge the metal.
> I have a question obtaining to braking on the KH24 frame. At > unicycle.com it is sold with a Sun Doublewide rim. Does this rim have a > good braking surface? I believe that it was designed for disc brakes and > therefore I am skeptical. Also, I think that I have seen on pictures of > Kris and his unicycle that he has sanded the edges of his rim. Does this > help much and how is it done so that the rim is not damaged/weakened in > the process. Just some thoughts. -Bert >
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>I’m not sure how Kris took
the paint off his rim, but I used a drill-attached wire brush. This
made the braking smoother and removed the annoying squeak. You have
to be careful not to apply too much pressure because it will eat into the
metal. This didn’t seem to weaken the rim because I was careful not
to gouge the metal.<BR> <BR> Joe<BR> In a message dated 1/16/02 6:18:20 PM
Eastern Standard Time, forum.member@unicyclist.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style=“BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px”>I have a question obtaining to
braking on the KH24 frame. At<BR> unicycle.com it is sold with a Sun
Doublewide rim. Does this rim have a<BR> good braking surface? I believe
that it was designed for disc brakes and<BR> therefore I am skeptical.
Also, I think that I have seen on pictures of<BR> Kris and his unicycle
that he has sanded the edges of his rim. Does this<BR> help much and how
is it done so that the rim is not damaged/weakened in<BR> the process.
Just some thoughts. -Bert<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML>
–part1_84.21cd9b9e.29779bd4_boundary–
Try using a hand held disk grinder with a masonory or metal grind disk on it! lightly rub the disk over the braking surface to create a rough texture on the rim, kinda like sand paper. the slower you go the better. As long as your carefull it wont make the rim weaker, as your only taking off the top layer of metal! Believe me it works great, with a set of soft pads, your breaks will work great, Trials bikers do it all the time!