36er KH/Schlumpf wheelbuilding odyssey

Unicycles and Equipment
1

Hey, I finally got my replacement hub from Florian.

When I first got the geared KH36 it was built with an Airfoil rim.

Then the bearings failed and I had to send the hub back to Switzerland…

Having a Nimbus Stealth Pro rim on my Nimbus Nightrider I figured I could save some weight (I think about 100 or 200g?) on the guni by swapping rims with the Nightrider.

So I just unlaced both 36ers and built the Nightrider’s Super Wide Hub into the Airfoil. I assumed 3 cross was about the only normal way to do this and so it worked alright like that. Although the spokes came through the nipples quite a far way. And it took forever. But I’ve been riding it like that for a while now with no problems whatsoever.

What I didn’t realize is that the geared hub and Airfoil wheel had been built up 4 cross, as I found out by studying a close-up picture of it…

So now when I got the new hub I thought I’ll just build it up 3 cross as well.
It sort of worked but the spokes (371mm) came way too far towards the rim tape.

So I thought I’ll take care of that and dremeled them all about 3mm shorter.

At first that seemed to solve the problem. But when I got to the stage of tensioning it up properly I found there was barely enough thread left to get it right.

I did get it tensioned very slightly and thought that it might be enough.
But when I did a small cautious test ride one spoke ripped out of the nipple.

So I don’t think it can be trusted for high speed distance riding.

That took about all day yesterday and now it turns out I’ll have to get new spokes anyways and do it all over. Bummer.

So now that I know I’ll need new spokes no matter what I found out with the spoke calculator on Roger’s site that I would need 377,8mm for 4 cross or 362,45mm for 3 cross.

I can only find 376mm or 371mm anywhere. They are way too expensive at 1,40 EUR per piece at municycle.com so I’ll get them either from Roger (0,67 EUR) or from the Danish site (0,56 EUR) instead.

So it looks like 4 cross and 376mm is my only real option, right?

Should I get some extra long nipples or will I be OK with 376mm instead of 377,8mm?

Any other tips before I order?

2

I just thought maybe it could work with my 371mm spokes and some extra long nipples?

Then I could put my shortened ones on the Nightrider with Airfoil and Super Wide Hub and take the ones from that one for the Schlumpf and Stealth combo.

Any thoughts about that?

3

I agree with you, longer nipples do work.

You have reminded me, I need to double check the dimensions for the hub. I think that they are not 100%. I am wondering if the new hubs have bigger diameter flanges and I had not noticed. We have one in stock now so I will check it out.

Roger

4

If you decide to go 3 or even 2x (might be OK with the huge flange) you could probably get your spokes cut down and re-threaded.

5

For what it’s worth, i havent had good luck with my lbs cutting and threading spokes for me manually. The threads were not strong enough and half the spokes ended up pulling through the nipples on on a moderate drop. it sounded like someone snapped a whole head of cellery in half. lol

However, that was just one experience. Perhaps (hopefully) other places are more competent.

Good luck muni rocks!

6

If this is the correct length, i would do this.

Or you can start a new odissey with this:

Long Nipples are not made to correct a wrong spoke length. Some rims eg. high aerorims need long nipples, because otherwise you can not tension the spokes with mounted tire. In a well build wheel, the spoke ends in the head of the nippel. Otherwise there will be the risk of demolition (Abriss des Kopfes).
With the low flexibility of the 13g or 14g spokes an the huge rimdiameter of a 36er, the stress to the nipplehead will be some higher than on a normal bicyclewheel. in my opinion the difference of 6mm ist to big.

You have payed about 1000€ for the hub. Do you want to build a bad wheel because you can save 25€ now?

7

Any good bike shop will have a spoke threader tool, you could take your existing spokes in to lengthen the threads, although you will probably need to replace the broken spoke.

The best option would be to get spokes made to the correct length - ask MDC & UDC UK if they have a spoke threader to make the exact length you need.

I totally agree with Eiserne Hand’s last comment, adding that the bad wheel build is also dangerous!

8

Thanks for all your helpful replies!

Getting my existing spokes shortened and rethreaded for 3x (362,45mm) sounds like a good thing to me.

I’m not sure how that would work, though. There’s some thread there already. Can that simply be lengthened? Or would they remove it and put a whole new thread on?

I also noticed that the thread is rather on top of the spoke than cut inside so it has a larger diameter than the unthreaded part of the spoke.

Anyways, it seems like it would be rather complex to get that done. So it’s probably expensive as well. And success is not guaranteed either.

So I guess I’ll get 176mm spokes and long nipples for a 4x build.

9

Roger, do you have the 176mm spokes on stock? Will they work for my wheel (new KH/Schlumpf + Stealth Pro)? Normal nipples or longer ones?

Thanks for helping me out.

10

I’ll just check my lbs about shortening and rethreading my spokes now. It would probably be quicker than waiting for international payments to come in.

Maybe cheaper as well.

11

Okay, so my lbs gave it a try with the threading machine. It didn’t work very well at all, so we gave up on that one.

Now I ordered new spokes at UDC.uk. I ordered non ss ones in black for a 3x build.

So I hope that was a good choice. I also ordered the long black nipples and washers.

I’ll let you know how it all worked out when it’s done.

12

I actually ended up buying a spoke threader to build my guni. Had to trim down ‘normal’ 36’er spokes, rethread them, and then build the wheel. It took ages, and then my bearings failed. I’m back on it again now though, and it sounds like you will be too - you sound patient about it all anyhow.

next up is a 29’er tube and a beefed up kh handle…

13

I have updated the sizes of the KHU/Schlumpf hub on the spoke calculator. So the figures should be more accurate now. It shows that 362 is the right length for a stealth. This I would agree with… more or less. I used long nipples with it when I did it and it worked well.

Roger

14

Just wanted to say I managed to build a great wheel finally, using the new black spokes and nipples and the brass washers ordered from Roger.
I’m kind of proud it worked out as well as it did. John Foss’ article in unimag helped a good deal, by the way.
It did take me about 1.5h to get it all round and true, but it was a rewarding experience.
And I’m happy that the new hub is going strong until now.