26ers, 29ers and crank length for muni

When I used 165’s on my 26 and 29 muni’s I found no increase in climbing ability, actually there was some decreased. Not sure if it was I just wasn’t used to them, but spinning the bigger circle threw my balance off quite a bit. Probably spent a month with them before going back to the 150s.

Most of my challenge in climbing is mental and balance, not leg strength. I see a tough hill coming and just say “no way” and set myself up for failure… When I actually give it a shot without over thinking it I tend to make it and really surprise myself.

There is a lot of hoping that gear will solve our problems in this sport, in a lot of cases gear has much less of an impact then we think it will.

Unless your knees are bothering you, I would say the 165’s are a waste of money.

I disagree. I think it is worth trying them. I’ve spent a lot of time with 150s and 165s. For me I could climb better with longer cranks, but only after riding them for quite a while. You have to get used to the extra torque. There is a subtle difference in how your body weight must be positioned.

When you’re climbing, you want your body weight forward so that each pedal stroke drives you and the wheel forward together. If you’re not used to long cranks, what happens is each pedal stroke drives the wheel forward very quickly and leaves your body weight behind, so you have to pause and let your body weight catch up. This makes it easier to stall out or tip over sideways.

You have to adjust how much you lean so that your body weight goes forward with the wheel. Once you get that figured out, then climbing is better with longer cranks.

The other thing that can happen is over-torque where you spin out. It’s important to spin circles even on steep climbs. If you just slam all your weight down on the pedal you’re likely to just lose traction. This can happen with shorter cranks too but not as much. You have to have better pedaling technique when you’re climbing with longer cranks.

There’s a reason Kris specs 125/150s stock. They work well.

I tried 165s on a 29er and hated it. I wouldn’t go near them again until I tried an Oregon and saw their merit. A bit off topic, but 137/165s are a nice compromise for an off-road 36er around these parts.

It used to be 165s or longer were the norm. Now that brakes are getting more and more dialed 150s are often viewed as long. It seems that a fair number of riders are leaning toward 137s or even 125s on their 26" MUnis. I’ve heard people like 137s on their 29ers as well.

I keep coming back to 150s. They work for me.

I have ridden ISIS cranks on my 36er as long as 175mm and as short as 125mm, and on my 29er as long as 170 and as short as 125.

The longer cranks worked awesome for climbing and descending, the increased torque for slow/power moves on tech trails was incredible, but they don’t ride as smoothly as a shorter crank. One day I switched cranks up and down a bunch of times on my 36er, going from 165 to 170 to 175, then back down to 165. That day I ended up “holding” at 170’s.

I rode this past winter with 150’s on my 36er, it made sense for the conditions as it was too wet to get enough traction to prevent “overtorquing” the wheel which leads to spin out. Once the season warmed and the trails started drying out, I’m back to 165’s and loving the climbing power.

With a good head of steam, I can spin up shorter steep climbs without resorting to a longer crank, but if I need to slog up a steep hill, esp on technical off road trails, a longer crank keeps me riding where shorter cranks would make me walk. I also find that a longer crank gives me more control on technical downhills, though at the price of inefficient spin at high speeds.

I have swapped crank lengths back and forth for a few years, my current pattern is short cranks for flatter and wetter trails, long cranks for dry trails and steep climbing. Maybe if I lived out West where the trails are a more even grade, then I’d consider staying with 150’s on all my munis, but for low speed tech moves and abrupt climbs, a long crank is useful. I don’t tend to seek out flat trails, so spinning for miles on easy to intermediate trails is not something I do, but if I did, then I might run a shorter crank or swapping pedal positions more often.

We have these “crank length” discussions every year, so clearly there are folks on both sides of the fence. From an physics standpoint, a longer lever decreases the amount of effort needed to move the wheel, so clearly a longer crank increases your pedaling power, but for some folks this increased power is gained only at the loss of pedaling efficiency and perhaps a loss of balance (?). Keeping in mind that the standard bicycle crank is 175mm long, we are not using “long cranks” per se, but then a unicycle is not a bicycle.

If you have only ridden shorter cranks and you wonder whether a longer crank will improve your climbing, well then, just get some longer cranks and give it a try. For $5-10 you can get a set of inexpensive cast Al QuAx 170’s from UDC.

But be prepared to lower your seat, to be a bit more “dynamic” in your body and how you move on the uni. Also, give it some time, ride them for a few weeks so you can adjust to the feel and re-establish your balance. There is no magic to lengthening or shortening cranks, it’s a “balance” to find the right length for your needs.

I no longer think that wheel size means as much when choosing cranks, it’s more a question of what you want to do with that wheel. If you ride your 29" or 36" for muni, then why wouldn’t you run a long crank just like your small wheel counterparts?

There are no rules for what works best, it’s all trial and error, riding experience plays a part, but in the end it is personal preference. For instance, I have been told that 29ers are not appropriate for “real muni” and yet I ride a 29er for real muni a few times each week. When I first tried riding muni on a 29" I was a dismal failure, yet a few years later the 29" is my small wheel and I ride tech muni on a 36er!

Sorry! I thought it was at least a slightly original question to consider crank length variation with wheel size, and clearly there are people on both sides of the fence.

For what difference it makes, the local trails where I live are pretty steep - possibly the ones I ride and struggle on, some of the riding gods on here would find easy, but once I’ve conquered those there are plenty of steeper ones. It would be rare to go for a bike ride and not spend significant amounts of time in little ring, and hit bottom gear at least once.

Yah I’ve posted that chart at least half a dozen times but it still rings true.

I have found that over the years crank choice doesn’t seem to matter as much as it used to as I have gotten stronger with the short ones and smoother with long cranks. I still like tinkering with my setups but am not adverse to trying something with a unicycle setup for something else.

Hey Aracer, it wasn’t a jab at you, the long crank discussion is ongoing from before my time. More to the point, there is no one way to outfit your uni, so no one should be making absolute statements. There are some very strong riders using short cranks and there are some very strong riders using long cranks, the same can be said for wheel size choices…

There is no denying the advantage of having a longer crank arm to reduce effort, but for some folks the costs are too high and/or it messes with their “rhythm”. I go back and forth depending on my conditioning, the season, the wheel I’m riding (fat and heavy or skinny and light), and my mood :smiley:

I wish the two hole cranks were not so widely spaced, a 10-15mm difference would be perfect, but alas it’s like asking for a smaller gearing step on a Schlumpf :roll_eyes:

On a different, though similarly conflictual topic, I am swapping out my Knard 29 x 3 for a “skinny” Hans Dampf tomorrow for some ride testing on my new 50mm wide Rabbit Hole rim. I expect a faster and harsher ride, with less bounce, and a little less auto steer. This will be the first time back on the HD since I got the Knard…

hope the karard doesnt make the HD feel like a road tire.

My Dissent made the HD feel like a road tire. Can’t imagine what the Knard’ll make it feel like…

IMO bigger wheel & cranks makes sence if u prefer to roll than hop.

My 24 Muni w/170s feels very box like but going down just 5mm to 165s gives me a smoothe stroke. 26x3/170s is slightly less box like & 26x2 way more box feeling for me… So wheel/tire weight is prob a factor.

165/137 dual hole KH Spirit cranks on 29

I don’t ride 165mm cranks on anything smaller than 29inch uni these days, but I think those 165 cranks have found a good home on my Oracle 29. I don’t tend to spin my 29 that fast to where I hit the wobble with the 165mm, like I do with smaller wheels. I also have a KH26, which I leave setup with 137mm cranks, and an Oracle 24 that I leave setup with 150mm cranks. The Oracle 24 with 150mm cranks is my muni for extreme endurance muni for technical winding hilly stuff. The KH26 with 137mm is my muni for big air and fast rollouts - it can do the stuff my 24 does in most cases but not as consistent and maybe with a bit more finess and endurance required. The Oracle 29 with the 165mm cranks is fun to really cover ground somewhat efficiently yet still be able to do hills and some technical. The seat height on the Oracle 29 with the 165 cranks tends to be the same as the KH26, and also the pedal when extended down - seems to be the same height as the KH26 with 137 cranks - the way those 2 are setup.

Love this Chart!!!

for me 150 on 26" is too long.
ordered 110 137, let see how it works.

110/137

After using the 150 on my Nimbus 24 Muni for about 6 months, I replace it with the KH 110/137 crank, love it. 110 is fast onroad and 137 is good for me for Muni ride :smiley:

This is a very interesting thread, and thank you to the user that made that chart! Very informative. :slight_smile:

I have 116mm cranks on my 20" and 165mm on my 26" muni…I believe that the standard cranks were supposed to be 150mm, but I guess the wrong ones got ordered.

I’m a bit of a shorter rider (about 5’6), so the longer cranks definitely make it hard to build momentum and get going. I can definitely see how longer cranks would help going downhill, and I am grateful for them when I do go downhill - although my muni has a brake.

I was originally thinking of getting the 127/150mm Kris Holm Spirits, but I’m wondering if I should go all the way down to 117/137mm?

165mm vs. 150mm cranks on 26" mUni

My normal setup is 165mm cranks on my 26" mUni. I reluctantly put on 150s the other day, and did the same ride I’d done two days earlier. So, here are the differences, for me, between the 165mm and 150mm cranks.

Spinning: I didn’t feel any improvement in spinning the 150s, probably because of muscle memory and being used to the 165s.

Maneuverability: The first uphill was rutted with erosion and tractor treads: I felt a decrease, on the 150s, in my ability to easily move to the left and right. Later in the ride, there was a steep patch of single track next to an intimidating cliff; again, I felt a decrease in maneuverability, and, psyched-out, I was unable to ride this portion of trail on the 150s.

Moderate Hill Climbing: On a one-mile long, moderately steep uphill, I was still able to stay on the seat, but I experienced a modicum more tension in my legs, while using the 150s.

Steep hills: I had to focus more on applying lateral force on the pedals at the 6:00 and 12:00 positions. After convincing myself otherwise, I made it up a couple steep, unpaved hills. There was one final hill, however, which I have only cleaned twice, and I slowed to a stop using the 150s. It was more difficult with the 150s to remount and start moving. Losing momentum made it difficult to get moving, again, on the 150s.

Conclusion: I put the 165mm cranks back on my 26" mUni when I got back from the ride. On the one hand, I felt good about myself for trying something different, knowing that it would make me a better rider; on the other hand, riding with 150s had its frustrations.

The most prominent indicator of success or failure, for me, is being able to clean a particular section of trail, and the trails in my neighborhood are hilly. So, for me, 165mm seems fine, for now. Being able to ride ‘most’ sections more smoothly or quickly…is less important.

A lot of beginners read the forums for advice about their setup. I would recommend 165mm cranks to beginner mUni riders, for the following reasons:

  1. 165mm is closer to a bicycle crank length, which most people are used to.

  2. Beginners are building muscle strength in and around their knees, and they don’t need to start out with the extra load of shorter cranks.

  3. Beginners might benefit from building cadence on longer cranks, and by learning to keep the uni stable while offsetting large cranks at higher cadence. Later on, they will be able to apply that skill to shorter cranks. I’m not sure it works the other way; starting with shorter cranks, then moving to longer ones, may result in a loss of stability.

Bottom line: it’s easy to like what we’re accustomed to.

I love my 165s. They are twichy but Im glad I got used them. Love to climb and going down hills in full control without the need for brakes, even on my 36er.
I ll have to see how I will like the 150s.

Yes, that’s a great chart, and it gets posted every once in a while.
Eric (saskatchewanian) later revised it to include 32" wheel data. So in the interest of inclusion, here’s the latest one.

elpuebloUNIdo & UPD:

Just out of curiousity, how tall are the two of you? I’m just wondering how much of a correlation there is between height and crank length (if any? :thinking: )

I rode 165mm cranks on my 26" Muni for years. When I got my 36", I put 165mm cranks on it for muni as well. Both sizes were equipped with a brake. Two years ago, I switched both wheelsets over to 150mm and experienced increased speed and control. I removed the brake from my 26" and never missed it. In January, I switched my 26" over to 137mm and absolutely hated the loss in control that I had. I immediately switched back to 150mm cranks. In March, I put the 137mm cranks back on (with brakes) and had a completely different experience. I am able to climb just as well as with 150’s and feel that I have the same amount of control. I also have the added benefit of additional speed. I have left the 137’s on my 26 since then and have ridden quite a bit of very technical terrain and my area is full of elevation change.

The lesson that I learned is even though you like a particular setup, it never hurts to change it periodically. Doing so will increase your skillset. Even if you didn’t like it previously, you still might have a different experience later.

Currently:
36" 150mm muni/125mm road
32" 150mm muni/125mm road
26" 137mm muni
20" 137mm trials

Very nice advice tnx