I’m actually getting the 24" oracle since I already have two 26ers, so the Oracle will be used primarily for the most technical MUni. As for brakes, the new KH frames come with both the disc brake and maggie mounts, and Kris says that the D-Brake mount will also work but may require a bit of filing.
I happen to like my magura brakes just fine and they have been mostly trouble-free for years. But I also can see some positives of the disc system as well, and it seems to work very nicely on my Oregon, and will also be standard equipment on my Oracle. I will also be getting the 3.0 width tire which I feel is the way to go for all-out technical MUni.
I also want the dual hole cranks and the KH seat, so that starts to add up to close to the cost of the KH26…when you add the cost of brakes.
Speaking of 24", the trails that I’ve been riding are moderately technical, at least for me. There are some flats, but there are also trails with moderately sized rocks in the middle that cannot be (by me) rolled-over. Some of these rocks I can hop, but these parts of the trail currently put me at the limit of my ability.
Terry, would you advise me to step down to a 24"? I have never really ridden anything bigger than a 24" in my 30 years of unicycling. I was thinking of the 26" because it’s a bit faster and has better rolling ability than the 24, but maybe I should reconsider? I have seen you doing pretty crazy stuff on a 29", so what kind of trails did you get the Oracle for? They must be pretty crazy.
Since I already have two 26ers, I wanted the classic 24" size. I feel that it’s the strongest size for doing drops and for the most all-out technical riding. Plus, the 24 will maneuver better and respond faster to rider input. The disadvantages of a 24, unless geared, is that it’s a bit slower than a 26er, and you have much less tire choice.
But when I want to go out and ride the most technical trails where I might be doing some sizable drops, and I’m not planning on riding more than a few miles, I will take the 24 every time. Having said that yes, I have done technical MUni on my larger unis, all the way up to my 36er, but if I only had one size to ride on the most difficult trails, again, it’d be my 24.
To get a KH a break setup all you need is the brake lever mount for the seat, and the actual brake system.
I will be putting a hydraulic disk on my Nimbus Muni, the rim brakes work well enough but i love how the disk brakes feel, i have had absolutely no issues in 5 seasons of running my mountain bike so its proven itself to me.
The KH Muni’s come with double hole spirit cranks with the disk mount, and the Nimbus (assuming the oracle) you would have to purchase a set of double hole cranks on top of the price of the unicycle.
Clearly, the upgrades to the straight steel Nimbus are not worth it, when I can get a better quality aluminum frame for $100 more. So it’s between the KH26 and Oracle 26". Seems the Oracle would be a better deal, a bit cheaper, rounded fork, two tires (it comes with 3"), and with disc brakes out of the box. Apparently the Oracle rim will hold tires down to 1.75" in width, whereas the KH26 can’t take tires much thinner than 2.5" because of the wider rim. I was thinking the thinner rim would be an advantage if I wanted to swap out to thinner tires and ride on the street (I have a spare 26X1.95 tire).
What’s the advantage of the thicker rims of the KH26? I can run lower PSI? Aside from the disc brakes, what exactly, if any, advantages are there to the KH26 over the Oracle?
Also what do the spirit cranks mean? Does that mean you need to mount disc brakes on the cranks? Can you easily mount a disc brake system on the KH hub?
The wider rim allows wider tires, which allow you to run low pressure.
The KH is lighter, and much more refined then the Nimbus.
The best comparison i have is my KH seat vs my Nimbus seat. Having the Nimbus Gel saddle you would think it would be more comfortable then the KH fusion street which is designed more for tricks and shorter rides. Buts its quite the oposite i have found my KH seat exeptionally more comfortable and after a few minutes of using the Nimbus gel saddle i start getting pain.
Spirit cranks:
-Q factor. They are contoured to seperate the pedals more to allow a more natural riding position, puting less stress on your hips/knees/ankles and giving you more control and smoother ride.
-Double Hole, the moments also have this but the psirit cranks are 25% lighter (and they are LIGHT!!)
-Disk mount
The KH hub does not have a disk mount and all the Muni’s come with the disk mount.
With the products i have used by kris holm that i have been able to compare to my Nimbus equivalent, there is a large different in quality and design. To set up the Hydraulic disk brakes on my Nimbus are costing me almost exactly $200.
Rotor - $30
Caliper/lever - $160 - 50% = $80
D Brake mount - $33
KH Lever mount - $20
with taxes and shippings it came out to about $195 cdn.
I did not include the price of the Spirit cranks in there, i was going to buy double holed cranks regardless and purchased mine on sale for $93 so that was a in avoidable purchase.
I was going to post how you really didn’t need to factor the full $120 into purchasing an additional pair of dual hole cranks, you’d just end up with an extra pair of cranks collecting dust… but it looks like some options went away on UDC.
Once upon a time when you placed your order you could upgrade from whatever the default cranks were to dual hole moments for something like $30 extra, which would have knocked off $90 on each of the nimbus unis you listed.
You won’t know until you call, but I’m sure UDC could work out something where they’d charge you an upgrade fee to swap the cranks out and they may even swap the tire out to whichever tire you wanted for free. Might be able to shave off $100 from those nimbus prices.
No, they will no longer do this because of low stock. So to customized to stuff that’s not in the drop-down boxes you have to basically pay for the stock item and the custom item.
> I’m not trying to knock the crank mounted rotors, but they have some issues that really can’t be resolved. Sure, they are an easy retrofit, which is really why they are so cool, but there’s a reason bikes have them mounted on the hub…
What are the disadvantages to crank mounted discs? Are they more easily damaged since they are outside the wheel? If so, why doesn’t Kris Holm offer hubs compatible with discs because of the incompatibility with the geared hub? seems odd since very few people are going to get the geared hub.
Now that is baloney. There is nothing more natural and less stressful about having your pedals further apart - at least not in general, it might work better for some people. There’s a reason bicyclists tend to consider lower Q factor an advantage - and all unicycles have a higher Q factor than the widest bike. There are advantages for unicyclists to wider Q as it gives you a broader base and better control, but it’s not a magical answer with no downsides - many of us prefer lower Q.
Well, after speaking with Josh at UDC at length, I think I am going to wait until the Oracle 29 comes out in Nov.
I don’t want to have every size uni, and I think the 29 will be a more versatile choice for me. With the Oracle, I can use tires down to 1.95, so it could be a great road uni to keep up with my family on bikes (they are not that fast) and a great muni for most of the stuff I will be doing. The inboard disc brakes and AI frame are real selling points for me. I also like the stock tire, 2.5" as opposed to the 3".
Your right on the fact that bicycles do have a lower Q factor but they are 2 totally different systems. I found the Q factor of the Nimbus Ventures vs the Spirit’s to be night and day! I have found far less stress on bother my knees, hips, and ankles. Allowing me to have a much more aggressive approach, with smoother pedal strokes and more control.
So it’s better for you - I acknowledged in my previous post that it might have advantages for some people. However you were trying to claim that because wider Q is better for you it would be better for everybody. A bicycle is not a completely different system to a unicycle - not in terms of how you power it. Both involve the same motion of your legs. A motion not completely dissimilar to other even more natural things such as walking and running, which is what we’ve evolved to do rather than pedal (the natural selection to be optimum unicyclists is way off yet, though it helps that unicycling is sexy ). Check out the lateral spacing of footstrikes when walking or running and have a think about what sort of pedal spacing ought to be more natural…
It is personal preference, it really depends on factors such as the rider’s body type and they kind of riding they do, so folks with narrower hips and road riders might prefer a narrower pedal spacing. I have wide hips, ride 100% off road, so when I got my first extra wide 125mm spaced hub (Oregon) it felt more comfortable and powerful. I liked it so much that I built my 36er on the extra wide hub
I take the extra wide even further by using Moments, so it super extra wide
You can adjust Q factor through cranks too, so even if you have the 100mm spaced hub, you can get Trial cranks and achieve about the same Q as you’d get with Ventures (no Q) on the extra wide hub.
I think it’s an interesting practice, to adjust your stance width and see if there is a more comfortable position. Bikers do this by varying bottom bracket width.
It’s hard to predict how much use/abuse metal parts will endure before they break. It depends on so many variables; the biggest of which is probably your riding technique. If you land softly you’ll last way longer than someone who doesn’t. That said, it’s a square taper axle so it won’t hold up forever to that kind of use. The original Semcycles, the Deluxe, had the strongest square taper unicycle axle available at that time. It will hold up well.
The biggest difference will come from the tire volume. Semcycle frames, whether the Deluxe or the XL, were made for 1.75" tires, and just won’t fit anything much bigger. You therefore have to run much higher pressure, and the trail gets a lot more challenging. My local trails got an awful lot easier to ride when I got my first wide-tired MUni. All the other stuff, like the flexy frame of the Deluxe, are minor compared to the tire limitation.
You will have to get used to a heavier wheel. It’s worth it. The ride will be very different, and yes the seat will be a big improvement as well.
Which one to get? I think you already decided. I’d get the KH, though the Oracle looks pretty nice with it’s inboard disk.
If you need brakes, disk is definitely the way to go. The question is whether you need brakes. I’ve been riding MUni as one of my major forms of unicycling for 16 years now, and I still don’t have a MUni with a brake. I’m behind the times, but most of my riding works without one. I reeeely could have used one for the Downhill race at Unicon(!) but that’s a very once-in-a-while ride for me, not necessarily something to buy for.
Nope. No problem at all.
Narrow is definitely better for high-cadence riding, like Track racing. Makes a fairly big difference. But at the other end of the spectrum, riding with a geared hub has a built-in factor of wanting to protect yourself from accidental shifting. I wouldn’t ride my geared 36" without flared cranks. Otherwise I definitely prefer straight cranks and narrow, if wheel strength isn’t a major factor.
Can anyone tell me how much wider Q factor I’ll get when I’ll buy new uni with Moments instead of Ventures? Now I have low Q and my knees hurt, so if there is a real difference (at least a few centimetres) and I should pay an extra money. Thanks
Josh at UDC said 5mm, not sure if that’s per side or total.
Why do you assume your knee pain is going to worsen with a wider stance?
My knee pain lessened with a wider stance as did the crotch rubbing
If you run Moments now, then you won’t notice the difference with Spirits. If you are riding K1 or Ventures, then you will notice the difference.
If you are curious about whether a wider stance would be “good for you”, try watching your foot position on your pedals with the current low Q crank. If you find your feet tend to gravitate outward or you ride on the outside of the pedal, it might be that a wider foot position is for you.
No such thjing as definites in this life, other than death Foot position is really a personal choice, each person depending on their body structure will have a different preference.
Only 5mm? That’s too little even if it’s per side:(
I don’t know where is my pain from. I raised my saddle (it helped a lot) and wider Q could by next step;)
I’m watching my foot position and the result is left foot is OK (whole pedal is under my shoe) but I can see a half of right pedal:)
But if it’s true about those 5mm, there is no reason to buy Moments…
Do you still ride the QuAx Cross 24 with the silver QuAx cranks (145mm?).
The QuAx aluminum cranks should have about the same offset (Q) as the Moments, but I’m not sure if the 145’s are the same as the 170’s, though they should be as size runs in the same crank are usually held to the same offset.
To help you:
All standard uni hubs have a 100mm bearing spacing, so KH, QuAx, Nimbus.
The Oregon and Impulse Disc have 125mm bearing spacing.
Moments, Spirits, QuAx Chromoly Street, QuAx Aluminum have similar Q
K1 have very little Q
Ventures have ~ zero Q
I can’t remember the exact measurements, but I think it’s something like 10-12mm for the group that includes Moments, 5mm for the K1, and 1-2mm for the Ventures.
Also keep in mind that running thinner or thicker spacers will change your width.
). Check out the lateral spacing of footstrikes when walking or running and have a think about what sort of pedal spacing ought to be more natural…