11th Hour...

Off-topic
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Some of the luckiest, richest people in history take part in this forum. I am one, and so are you.

A good quality unicycle with aluminium or alloy components represents a massive investment of resources and energy - more than the entire wealth of many villages or communities for most of human history. And it’s just a toy.

If you can ride a unicycle, you have considerable leisure time. Even today, many children and adults in poor countries work 15 - 20 hours a day with no holidays. Throughout most of history, in most cultures, leisure time has been a very scarce resource for the common person. And you and I have time to practise skills, ride a “one wheeled bike”, and type drivel on the internet.

If you can ride a unicycle, you have your health. Even today, a child dies avery 30 seconds or so from malaria. Throughout most of history, death by disease or premature old age has been around the next corner for most people. At 44, I would be an old man in the England of 200 years ago.

If you participate in this forum, you have access to a computer, and the most basic home computer today is many times more powerful than the computers available to NASA during the lunar landing missions.

If you participate in this forum, you can communicate freely with other unicyclists from America, Europe, Asia, Australia and Africa. For most of human history, the next village was as far as you would travel, and the only strangers you would meet would be travelling merchants or entertainers - unless you were “lucky enough” to be involved in a war.

If you participate in this forum, you can communicate with people from ages of 10 or so to 60 or more, on a more or less equal footing. That is a privilege denied to almost every previous generation.

If you participate in this forum, you can be critical of your government, and comment satirically on world events. In many parts of today’s world, that would bring harsh penalties, and historically, even more so.

And many people in this forum criticise and challenge religious orthodoxy. That would be enough to get you executed painfully throughout much of human history, especially here in Europe.

Some of the people who post here are “openly gay” - and the fact that the word “openly” is ever prefixed to “gay” tells a story: that throughout much of human history, this has been either a taboo, or even a capital offence.

  • And with possibly a few exceptions, the people in this forum have never been forced to fight in a war.

Which leads me on to the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month: 11:00 on the morning of 11th November: the anniversary of the armistice at the end of World War 1 - a conflict that saw 20,000,000 or more deaths. Those killed were mainly of young men and some women between the ages of 16 or so and about 40 - which is a bracket that encompasses most, but not all, of the people in this forum.

This Sunday is Remembrance Day, and this year it actually falls on the 11th.

Take a moment to think of the people who died in two world wars, and many other conflicts - including the present troubles in Afghanistan and Iraq - fighting for their countries.

The first world war was a sordid, evil affair, with rival power blocks competing for land, resources, prestige and security. There were no good guys and bad guys, but only squabbling leaderships, and massive pointless sacrifices by the people. The second world war was a more “heroic” conflict, in that the free world was fighting against an evil and expansive regime - but it was the evil that started the war, not the heroism.

I knew a man who was a prisoner of war in Japan, Trevor Hull. He was a good man, a real gentleman, but his experiences scarred him for the rest of his life - from 1945 until his death over 40 years later.

My great uncle Les died in World War 2 in a Wellington bomber, on his first mission. I can remember his sister, my grandmother, talking about him. Since then, I’ve read his last letter home. There were countless like him.

A lot of the people in this forum are young - possibly too young to have read this far. Well, if you have read this far, take a moment to think, tomorrow. It’s not just some old men and politicians going through an arcane ritual. It’s important we all remember, and remember how lucky we are.

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What good is remembering when we just keep on going to war?

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That was written very well.

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Proper democracies with free, prosperous and educated populations tend not to go to war with each other. It seems unlikely that England, France, Spain, the Netherlands and Germany (historically enemies over many centuries) will ever fight each other again, or at least in our lifetimes.

We cannot individually control our society, and our votes are only of very limited practical value. It suits the purposes of government to keep the population with no more education than is needed for employment.

It is therefore for the likes of you and me to do what we can to pass on knowledge and to keep ideas alive. Every Pound you spend is a vote for the way you would like the world to be, and every “serious” thing you say or write is a small contribution to making the world more how you would like it to be.

Freedom and rights are hard won, and easily squandered.

And anyway, sometimes, the simple act of remembering is good. It may give us a different perspective. I’ve had a terrible few days at work, and ank into a deep pit of depression for two of those days, but how insignificant that seems compared to a terrible four years in the trenches.

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I agree. Cathwood is always clear, concise and to the point.

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my son was born on 11/11
11 years ago we were happy with his 20 anniversary
he came back home from his training as an officer in the french army …
He just had 10 more days to live …

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Well I’m very privileged then. Good write up

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Excellent post!
People take our freedoms for granted.

Oh and no matter what you feel about the current war,
STFU when we take a moment to honor our veterens. They deserve at least that and so much more.

There are plenty of opportunities to speak out against war.
A thread honoring people who fought for our county is not one of them.

Thank you :slight_smile:

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Very good write up, most people don’t realize how privileged they are to have the freedom that some people have nowadays. In years past it hasn’t been so great.

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Here’s the Google US logo for today (Veterans Day)

Google_veterans07.gif

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I agree with you on that.

It doesn’t matter where in the world you are 2day/night. Remember those who serving on the battlefronts.


GOD BLESS THEM ALL.

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My apologies for posting late on this, but I felt I should as I agree with Mike on so many points.
Who can fail to have been moved today by watching the wreath laying and listening to Sir Edward Elgar’s famous Enigma Variations of 1899, Nimrod?
http://www.kendormusic.com/str2002/10085.htm
Buy a poppy.
Be quiet for two minutes.
And show some respect.

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Wow.

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Slight correction. I checked today, and great uncle Les was in a Halifax bomber, not a Wellington.

They flew one mission, dropping their bombs, and were hit by enemy fire on their return journey. They took the hit when over Holland, but didn’t know how bad it was, and tried to carry on, hoping to cross the North Sea and reach their base in Yorkshire, England.

However, before they reached the sea, an engine was on fire and the pilot was unable to keep the plane up. According to a signed statement I read from the tail gunner, the pilot simply said, “I’m sorry, chaps. We’ll have to jump.”

The tailgunner was usually the least likely to survive. On this occasion, he was the only survivor of the whole crew.

He parachuted down into enemy occupied territory. He landed, and looked up to find his chute was fouled on overhead cables! Before he could free himself, German soldiers arrived. He was arrested at gunpoint. The senior German officer realised that the captured manwas an officer, and therefore instructed one of his soldiers to commandeer a bicycle from the nearby village.

A soldier then gave him a “croggy” (a lift on the crossbar of the bike!) back to the police station, which was being used as a base for the local German forces.

At the police station, he was searched and stripped of most of his possessions, but was allowed to keep his tobacco. The German officer was very civilised and honorable in his dealings with him.

Many years later, the tailgunner collected together a massive portfolio of details about the flight, visited the scene of the crash, and made an effort to track the families of his comrades from that flight who were all killed.

There is a Halifax bomber at the RAF museum in Hendon. It’s a tiny thing for a group of men to fly at night for hundreds of miles, navigating by compass, the stars and dead reckoning, and under hostile fire.

750×600 87.9 KB

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i am ashamed to say i forgot about this until i saw this thread :frowning:

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Bear, your post stopped me in my tracks.
My thoughts are with you and your family.

I traveled back from Johannesburg to Nelspruit today.
Along the way we stopped at the memorial erected on the site of the Battle of Bergendal, scene of the final pitched battle of the Anglo-Boer War in 1900.
74 men held a hill in the face of 1500 attacking English troops.
The order had been issued to hold positions along an 80km long front.
At all cost.
They lost the position eventually.
But they didn’t surrender.

It seemed like a fittingly pointless place to remember the horrors and futility or war.

Every opportunity is one to speak out against war.
When you’re awake is an opportunity to speak out against war.
Speaking out against war is the only way to truly honour the veterans.
There is no way to peace.
Peace is the way.

And don’t tell Cathwood to STFU.
Mind your manners lad.

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A few days ago I was watching this on youtube. It is film about the flying fortresses during the war. I am not american, but watching this did move me to tears. I was already thinking when Mike’s thread hit me again.

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=YLcGKnbm5BA

But I cannot agree with those who say this is an inappropriate thread in which to be anti war. The “Lest We Forget” surely also has that purpose in mind, to make us all think, think whether there might just be an alternative to that next war.

Nao

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I can’t recommend enough that you try reading Stephen Abrose’s Second World War books.
D-Day, Citizen Soldiers, Pegasus Bridge, Band Of Brothers and Wild Blue.
They don’t glorify war.
They just tell the stories of how things happened.

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Great quote; Yes, people want peace.

But at times when one group starts killing people, others will risk or lose their lives to defend those people.

I watched much of “They Were Soldiers” and “Saving Private Ryan” this weekend. Common people thrust into horrific situations.

My father passed away on Veteran’s Day in 1989 so this is an easy day to remember. He fought in WWII but did not define his life as being a vet, I think he wanted to put much of that experience behind; however, we always had a few memorabilia around the house as a reminder of that time. He opted not to have any military honors at his funeral. My uncle also fought in the same theatre of war, when he died a few years ago they did the flag ceremony and 21-gun solute at his graveside.

I have some WWI and WWII shells on display in my living room, several of the WWI shells were collected by my wife’s family and have been worked into beautiful vases. Not to glorify war but as a reminder of what has transpired.

Until all wars cease, there will be those who rise to defend the innocent. That is no small calling. They certainly deserve to be remembered.

PICT2641.JPG

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I agree, Nao, but I think the earlier poster meant, “Please don’t let this degenerate into a partisan anti-Iraq War thread. Let’s remember the fallen of all the wars.” There is legitimate variation of opinion about that particular war (and, indeed the Afghanistan conflict) but that is for another thread. Being anti-war in the more general sense is just common sense - which is surgically removed when a politician achieves high office.