OorWullie | 2024-03-21 20:12:02 UTC | #1 Good evening. Or good whatever time of day it happens to be wherever you are reading this! I have recently returned to unicycling after not riding for a few years. I went back to 2 wheels for a while. I'm happy to report I can still free mount, ride, and ride off road, although not as far yet and with more upd's than when I stopped! Where I live is generally pretty hilly unless I ride on the roads. However there is one private road I have easy access to, with minimal traffic. It rises approximately 115 feet in a little over a mile according to the Strava segment. It feels pretty steep, although I was never very good at uphill riding. I'm just curious as to what other riders consider a 'steep' or 'hilly' ride? My aim over the next little while is to be able to ride that mile or so without stopping. Then I'll move onto some of the steeper forest roads to keep challenging myself. So, just to satisfy my curiosity what is your average elevation gain in feet per mile? And what wheel size and crank length are you doing it on? And on or off road? I'm currently using my 24" nimbus with 150mm cranks on a specialized big roller 24x2.8, though as my confidence grows again I'll also use my 29", which also has 150mm cranks and has a schwalbe 29x2.35 tyre. ------------------------- www.einradshop.ch | 2024-03-21 20:30:52 UTC | #2 I will venture uphill again after a few years. I remember I mostly drove with medium-width 26 inch tires. I tried 127mm, 150mm (Kris Holm cranks), 125mm and 145mm. It probably depends on the incline and fitness level. I didn't get up the mountain any better with the Kris Holm cranks with 150mm than with 127mm, one seemed too long and the other too short. Well, I suspect that a length of around 137mm/140mm will be ideal. But tomorrow I'll start with my dual cranks at 145mm. And if these seem too long I will install 140mm. ------------------------- jswim788 | 2024-03-21 21:30:27 UTC | #3 Steepness is definitely a personal item. If you look around the forum you'll find awesome hill climbers doing "Everest" challenges and more. Or riding up every steep road in San Francisco. I often do a loop on trails that is a little over 4 miles with around 500 feet of elevation gain, so about 250 feet per mile (I down as much as I go up). That's not linear - some parts of the trail have a lot of elevation gain and others are much flatter. I find that to be a good workout and "hilly". ------------------------- OorWullie | 2024-03-21 21:05:32 UTC | #4 The local loop I've been doing regularly on 2 wheels is just over 8 miles with over 800' elevation. However, the last half is fairly flat. Checking with Strava, there's almost 600' of climbing in the first 2.5 miles. I would like to manage that on the uni, but I'm trying to set goals I can actually achieve, or at least steps on the way to achieving the end target! I think at the moment it is technique rather than fitness that holds me back on the climbs. Losing weight and getting fitter will definitely help too though. And riding regularly again should help with that too! ------------------------- Aurelien | 2024-03-22 08:54:48 UTC | #5 I usually consider a ride "hilly" if there is more than 10m D+/km. It converts to approximatly 50 ft/mile. ------------------------- Unicyc | 2024-03-28 22:55:28 UTC | #6 Check out the Olympus Mons Challenge 2024 currently under way. 21,500m (70,538ft) elevation gain in 3 months Three have completed under a month. https://rs-sudety.fly.dev/challenges_mobile ------------------------- tholub | 2024-03-30 06:28:09 UTC | #7 My benchmark for rides in the SF Bay Area is that a ride with less than 1% total distance/total gain is not hilly, 1-1.5% is average, 1.5-2% is hilly, and above 2% is epically hilly. So, a 50km ride with <500m of climbing is on the easy side, where >1000m of climbing would be epic. (That's about a typical Mount Diablo ride). In between is in between. ------------------------- OorWullie | 2024-03-31 16:46:09 UTC | #8 I made it up that road today, although I did have 2 upd's on the way. I managed to get back down in one go without any upd's though. Next goal is to complete the climb in one. ------------------------- OorWullie | 2024-03-31 16:52:02 UTC | #9 What do you all do as a warm up? On a bike I generally take it easy for the first 10-15 minutes, use a lower gear and spin before putting in a harder effort. On the uni it seems a lot more difficult to ease off, I'm either riding or walking with little in between! I imagine, the same as all things unicycling, it just takes time to get used to riding 'softer' but do you do a warm up? And if so, what? Thanks. ------------------------- slamdance | 2024-04-06 06:14:52 UTC | #10 I definite uphill riding based on effort level and riding technique: **Type 1: Easy uphill riding** Normal pedaling rhythm with extra efort. Depending on distance you might be able to "cheat" uphill with speed, but eventually you have to surrender and settle down to a high effort pedaling rhythm. This is good cardio workout if you can go longer than 10 minutes. Try 30 min. Try an hour...etc. Just pick a nice long hill. Also, if you need to "mechanically cheat", then experiment with different crank length, seat height and wheel sizes. **Type 2: Pumping uphill** Pedal → Pause → Pedal → Pause.... It's too steep to simply have continuous pedaling action. You must stomp one at a time from 3 to 9 o'clock. Keep most weight on your pedals. This also requires a quick or slow "pause" in between. This allows setting up for next stomp, and also some "rest" time. You may also be holding saddle in one hand to counteract the twisting forces. **Type 3: Extreme climbing.** Same as type 2, but even more stomping and pausing action. Throwing/rocking"your body weight forward for additional power. Requires advanced balancing skills. Being able to SIF idle is very helpful. This technique is especially needed when the terrain is bumpy or even grassy w/holes everywhere. For Type 2,3 the trick is to get into a good rhythm of pedaling, balancing and breathing. Maximize the "pause" for rest. Also, be very very aware that you must never let your body go to maximum effort. A certain "reserve" energy is always needed in case you need a rapid unicycle escape move to prevent falling. Those saving reflexes are gone when you are completely exhausted. ....have fun...slam ------------------------- Unicyc | 2024-04-01 00:02:46 UTC | #11 Check out the Olympus Mons Challenge. Link above . The 4th rider just finished and on his day 31, on his final ride he recorded on Strava 2058m elevation gain over 100km averaging 15km/hr. Massive Epic! ------------------------- OorWullie | 2024-04-01 13:29:58 UTC | #12 I can't even contemplate trying the Olympus mons challenge on a bike with gears never mind a unicycle! Respect to those that have done it! ------------------------- Unicyc | 2024-04-05 09:03:35 UTC | #13 [quote="OorWullie, post:12, topic:282458"] I can’t even contemplate trying the Olympus mons challenge on a bike with gears [/quote] Me too. To me there is something, some feeling about hill climbing a unicycle that is "satisfying". Not just when getting to the top of the hill, but also during the climb. I can't go past a hill without trying to hill climb it on my unicycle. I don't feel that feeling on a bike (even with gears) I enjoy the advantage I get by moving my weight to different positions to use different muscle groups during the climb, depending on grade of Hill - engaging different muscle groups within Hips/buttocks/upper legs. ------------------------- haskinsc | 2024-04-05 21:24:20 UTC | #14 I'm a fan of hill climbing on one wheel having done Fargo Street, Mt. Washington, Mt. Ascutney, and Whiteface plus some local climbs around the state of Maryland in the U.S. So for what it's worth, some might find this information helpful ... Very good website for finding climbs: https://pjammcycling.com They recently switched from the FIETS index to [their own index](https://pjammcycling.com/blog/50.pjamm-difficulty-index) to measure a climb's difficulty. ------------------------- Philipp_M | 2025-01-30 17:39:48 UTC | #15 I just found this guy: https://www.strava.com/activities/13389880424 On this 17mi(27km) ride, there's a segment with an altitude gain of 285ft(87m), and 11% incline, which he covers in 4:26min. He climbs 64ft(20m) per minute! As far as I have seen on his other tracks, which include very long rides, he rarely drops below 40ft(12m) per minute on his climbs. That's pretty amazing and shows, that the unicycle is less of a limitation for climbing, than I thought. ------------------------- OorWullie | 2025-01-30 18:30:24 UTC | #16 I was out yesterday on a route I haven't done in a long time. I set a new pr on a Strava segment. I've only ever previously ridden it on my bike! ------------------------- Philipp_M | 2025-01-30 18:41:27 UTC | #17 That's surprising to me! What was the height gain and distance? I am really looking forward to try some uphill riding on properly inclined trails. ------------------------- OorWullie | 2025-01-31 02:31:19 UTC | #18 It's only a short segment, 0.53 miles but with 256 feet elevation gain. 8.6% gradient according to Strava. I was never a particularly fast climber on the bike either, but I guess with the unicycle if I go too slow I'd stall and fall over so I had to keep spinning 🤣 I have to admit too, that although it was a pr, it only moves me up to 586th out of 891 on the leaderboard and far from competitive compared to the fast riders. Then again I suspect I'm probably the only unicyclist to have ridden that route and I was faster than over 300 bike riders! ------------------------- Maxence | 2025-01-31 07:33:01 UTC | #19 FYI, Ben Soja (@muni_ben) is one of the best riders in the world. He has multiple World Champion titles in muni. He is the first unicyclist to have ridden an Everesting. So, yeah, he is not a bad rider 😁 ------------------------- Philipp_M | 2025-01-31 08:15:59 UTC | #20 Right after my post, I realized his other accomplishments. :slight_smile: But of course I understood before, that he has to be extraordinary, since he's quicker on many uphills than quite well trained people on a bicycle. ------------------------- muni_ben | 2025-02-01 10:18:45 UTC | #21 Thanks. Maybe faster than average (or slightly above) bikers but definitely much slower than the faster bikers 😉 I think there are certainly several factors when comparing the performance of uni vs. bikers on Strava, including the fact that some of these segments are simply not ridden that often/hard. Last year I participated in a local challenge where people raced 3 uphill road segments on Strava: https://www.les-cols-de-zurich.ch/ (website in German). I think this is a more realistic comparison. All segments were between 200-300m of climbing. I ended up 47/163, that is, out of those who finished all 3 segments. I had to use a G36 on 2 segments because they had longer flat parts. On the steeper climb (10%, 300m over 3km), I still used a G29 due to some shorter flat parts and ended up 39/196. The unicycle is less disadvantaged on the climbs, but still inferior especially on the mixed gradients we had there. It's definitely amazing what you can achieve with the unicycle, but more gearing options would really help with the power output. The fastest in this competition are out of reach in any case, they are just crazy 😁 ------------------------- OorWullie | 2025-02-01 11:01:11 UTC | #22 For me, I'm not really comparing myself to the bikes. I was more comparing myself to myself, and I found it a bit surprising that I had beaten my own bike time on a segment. Bearing in mind that when I started this thread I was hoping to manage a fairly mellow climb I am surprised and encouraged by managing to get up that section, never mind setting a new pr on it! Looking at the Strava leaderboard I don't think I could manage on the flat to achieve the speed some bikes are capable of uphill. I'm mostly riding an ungeared oracle 27.5x3.25 just now with the standard 150mm cranks and around 10mph is the most I get to on flat roads, and usually I'm more like 8 or 9mph. I also managed a climb yesterday I have never completed before, but it is a steep ramp in the middle of a longer segment so I don't actually know what gradient is. It's just steep. I'm just happy to see my own progress and to ride sections I've previously had to walk! That said, I do look at leaderboards and I generally see I'm around 70%. Ben, managing to get in the top 25% is incredible! ------------------------- OorWullie | 2025-02-01 11:03:48 UTC | #23 For reference, my average speed on the segment was 3.9mph, the KOM is 11.6mph! ------------------------- Philipp_M | 2025-02-01 13:23:14 UTC | #24 @muni_ben Thanks for the reply, including more data. On those climbs you are on average covering 1060m/h which is well beyond the average bicycle rider. 🙂 It's even beyond the average of the riders which competed in that challenge. More importantly, you're ~30% slower than the fastest bikers, which is a smaller handicap than I would have thought. (Even assuming you'd match the leaders times on a bicycle.) My bicycle climb rate is around your unicycle climb rate, so I am looking forward to see if the 30% apply to me as well. Probably not, since I am certainly less efficient on the unicycle than you. It's still an interesting benchmark! ------------------------- Wheelou | 2025-02-01 19:44:07 UTC | #25 [quote="OorWullie, post:22, topic:282458"] Bearing in mind that when I started this thread I was hoping to manage a fairly mellow climb I am surprised and encouraged by managing to get up that section, never mind setting a new pr on it! [/quote] When I was younger I liked long climbs (ideally around 10%), but that was on a b!ke. When I read of people who thoroughly enjoy climbing a hill on a unicycle, I just shook my head. Recently I had a longer (by my standards) hill climb on my 36er. Didn't manage to ride the whole elevation of around 180m, but I did a lot better than a month or so ago. And for the first time I saw the appeal of using a uni for hillclimbs. I guess that has to do with me slowly becoming a better (and fitter) rider, thus reducing the need to constantly focus on not falling and enabling me to enjoy the ride and the surroundings. Hope to someday be able to ride that hill in one single go. ------------------------- OorWullie | 2025-02-01 19:56:12 UTC | #26 The two rides this week have definitely boosted my confidence and enjoyment with climbing. I have plenty room for improvement still, but that's all part of the fun and sense of achievement with unicycling! The thing for me is, I've kind of avoided the hillier routes around where I live because I get annoyed with myself having to walk. Now I've seen an improvement I actually want to ride up hills just to see if I manage it 🤣 ------------------------- Philipp_M | 2025-02-13 10:05:37 UTC | #27 I've switched from arm-chair analysis to collecting real world data. :slight_smile: My findings so far with my 27.5" with 137mm cranks: I can efficiently ride up to ~10% incline for a couple of 100m of altitude gain, and maintain a climb speed of at least 10m/minute. But if it's a bit steeper or if the surface isn't smooth, the efficiency quickly turns into exhaustion. :slight_smile: It's a fine line: If the surface and the incline is just right, I ride with the hands on the T-Bar handles and the movement feels efficient. A small deviation towards more incline or some bumps, and I have to grab the center bar with one hand and balance with the other hand. In that mode, after perhaps 50m I am exhausted. :face_with_spiral_eyes: Let's see, how far I can move my "incline-threshold" with some training. Currently I feel, it's the power in my legs, and not the cardio which is limiting me. ![grafik|432x500](upload://rUzI4GUO9jMYaHriebbgRMP2smc.jpeg) ![grafik|690x454](upload://kISvaUObYvrAGiQjD2lpcOsrOUf.jpeg) ------------------------- Wheelou | 2025-02-13 18:29:03 UTC | #28 Do you sit all the time or do you stand up if things are getting (too) steep? ------------------------- Philipp_M | 2025-02-13 18:35:54 UTC | #29 I alternate, to reduce fatigue. I mostly sit, but stand up from time to time while I continue to grab the T-Bar handles. That feels quite efficient as well, but it's a bit harder for me balance-wise. ------------------------- Wheelou | 2025-02-13 22:07:10 UTC | #30 Ok. I thought maybe you get exhausted when using the center bar while standing - it‘s lower than the T-bar grips, so you have different position that could be more tiring. Just speculation… ------------------------- Philipp_M | 2025-03-20 11:49:08 UTC | #31 I’ve been looking at the climbing-topic from a different angle: On a bicycle I am capable of ~1000m/h climb, when hiking up a steep path, it’s a bit more. On the uni, I feel, that my power output drops below a cadence 80-90 which equals a speed of ~10-11kph. (Optimistically) assuming, I could climb 1000m/h on the unicycle, this cadence-constraint would require an incline of maximum 10%, because I have to keep at least 10kph, and I can’t do more than 1000m/h. 10kph at 10% incline lead to ~1000m of altitude gain per hour. Long story short: The cadence minimum of 80-90 to keep the power output high and my cardiovascular limit of 1000m/h means, there's no point in trying to climb much more than 10% for longer distances with my current wheel-size and crank-length. If I was able to climb 1500m/h, that would translate to a reasonable maximum incline of 15%. If I could do not more than 500m/h, the incline limit would be 5%. So the incline-range to efficiently climb on a unicycle is pretty small. :slight_smile: ------------------------- Setonix | 2025-03-21 13:45:17 UTC | #32 Don't yous have sore knees when riding uphill? I damaged my knees some years ago with intensive UW practice. Riding uphill puts too much strain on my knees, that I then to step off and walk up before continuing. Balance wise, I'd rather ascend and descend. Especially without a brake, descending is also bad on the knees. You talk about 10-11kph on uni. What size wheel? With the 29" on flat I ride at 12-13kph. I never turn it into a race really. The 10-11kph is prolly cruising speed for a 24", which would also be better suited for uphill rides. ------------------------- OorWullie | 2025-03-21 14:21:33 UTC | #33 I average around 8mph 12.5kph) on 24 with 127mm cranks, and around 8.5mph (just under 14kph) on my 29 with 137mm or my 27.5 with 150mm. That's average over a whole ride though, usually between 6 and 15 miles (10 and 25 kilometres). Uphill my speed is much less! Maybe 4-5mph. I don't find uphill too sore on my knees, but downhill can be, especially when its steep or bumpy and I'm using my arms for balance and not holding the brake! ------------------------- Philipp_M | 2025-03-21 18:20:42 UTC | #34 I felt my knees (probably some tendons around the knee) being quite fatigued after my first uphill (also downhill) rides, perhaps even a slight pain. I was quite surprised about it, since I am somewhat used to trail-running and never had any issues with my knees. Unicycling put more force on my knees, than I would have expected. :slight_smile: Anyway: It appears, I have adapted by now since I don't feel the fatigue any more. I have a KH27.5 with 137mm cranks. Sure - a 24" would raise my incline-limit. 20" would raise it even more. But I wouldn't be much faster than walking speed, and the "crusing speed" or the downhill speed would be significantly lower. So I think the 27.5" is quite a good compromise. ------------------------- SirCranky | 2025-03-21 22:02:01 UTC | #35 Yeah, after i broke my kneecap in 2022 long cranks have been my worst enemy. Especially on descents where they make for a more acute angle when backpedaling. It is still so bad that i'd rather take the higher pressure from short cranks at a more favourable knee angle. ------------------------- Setonix | 2025-03-21 23:53:06 UTC | #36 The 27.5" is the only size I'm still missing in my collection. But I do wonder if it really is much of a difference as I already have a 26" and 29". Pity I don't live close to a uni store, so I can have test run or something. ------------------------- OorWullie | 2025-03-22 00:09:20 UTC | #37 I'd say it depends on what tyres you have and what you might use it for. My 29 has a 2.25" with a low profile tread, my 27.5 has the Duro crux 3.25. Diameter ends up being similar, so actual speed is similar but I prefer the extra volume if I'm doing longer and rougher rides. That's also why I've stuck with the standard 150mm cranks too, I like the extra leverage and control for steeper rides (up and down hill). The 29 is lighter, a little faster (maybe 0.5mph on my average speed) but that's probably more due to the shorter cranks. If you already have 26 and 29 it is probably unnecessary to get 27.5. Then again, you can never have too many unicycles 🤣 ------------------------- IvenBach | 2025-03-22 01:12:31 UTC | #38 [quote="OorWullie, post:37, topic:282458"] you can never have too many unicycles [/quote] My wife says otherwise. ------------------------- Philipp_M | 2025-03-22 11:53:35 UTC | #39 That's interesting and I had a similar experience: I used to lower my seatpost a lot for downhills. Then I found out, I actually ride better with a higher seat. That change probably contributed to feeling no more fatigue around the knees. (besides some adaptation) I don't see myself riding shorter cranks than 137mm on bumpy trails anytime soon. 🙂 ------------------------- SirCranky | 2025-03-22 12:56:28 UTC | #40 Of course, for trails you would need longer cranks, but i ride mostly road and actually find myself much faster on a lower seat post ------------------------- ManiusTerentiusPullus | 2025-03-22 15:19:43 UTC | #41 I ride on some small trails with 114mm ISIS cranks on my Nimbus 20" freestyle. It works pretty well, considering these are very flat trails with a few big bumps from tree roots. ------------------------- Setonix | 2025-03-24 11:04:55 UTC | #42 For a while I'd been going to a unicycle club, who had hired a school gym to ride around in. Then I'd take the freestyle unicycle. Those peeps wanted me to put the seat as high as possible that even if when stand there hardly is any space between the seat and ur crutch. When riding outside like that, it is way too high. I reckon for free-style tricks it needs to be all the way up. In order to deal with bumps from tree roots I like to be able to stand up and have some flexibility to catch the bumps with my legs. In Thailand I also bought a unicycle, but those peeps are very short and thus they only had short seatposts. My legs are near folded on it and it is not comfortable riding that way. Unfortunately the seatpost pipe has a diff diameter than the seat posts I have at home, so my current ones don't fit on it. I do prefer the seat to somewhat higher, which saves my knees. ------------------------- Jimmy_Hayden | 2025-03-30 11:22:33 UTC | #43 I'm training to ride my 26 In Nimbus Mountain Unicycle up Mt. Washington New Hampshire. Thats 4700 Ft (1430 Meters) Elevation gain over 7.6 miles with an average grade of 12%. My weekly mileage has been around 35 miles with 3000-4000 Feet of elevation per week. Because I don't live on a mountain ( I live in central md, more of a coastal plane), I do hill repeats on sections of hills with 12 % grade, usually 8-15 repeats. I've realized that I get knee pain after a week of heavy load. I think it's from the down hills since I don't have a break. It takes a lot of force to slow yourself down. Does anyone else who rides terrain not have brakes? ------------------------- IvenBach | 2025-03-30 19:25:11 UTC | #44 [quote="Jimmy_Hayden, post:43, topic:282458"] Does anyone else who rides terrain not have brakes? [/quote] My first few muni rides with others were on my brakeless 24in Torker. No knee pain but definitely more fatigue at the end. It requires a lot more energy to ride at a safe controlable speed down steeper grades than you think. When I upgraded to unis with brakes I found myself riding much faster than I expected l, albeit in still a slow rider, and it was still comfortable. Brakeless is doable but definitely not as fun or easy as with a brake. Edit: welcome to the forum. ------------------------- MUCFreerider | 2025-04-01 06:47:24 UTC | #45 I've hiked Mt Washington before and didn't remember it being so much elevation! Sounds really fun with the uni and I would love to join but I'm in Europe now. Other than the brakeless part, that sounds similar to how I train. I live in Munich so it's about an hour to the mountains so I often train short 10-15% grade uphills of 30-50m and do multiple repeats. If you don't have mountains that's a good compromise. But basically you need to be training muscle strength and cardio endurance. I think the steep uphill repeats train the strength pretty well and felt they really helped me. Combine that with cardio training (either running, biking or longer uni rides) and should be good. It's been a long time since I rode downhill without a brake but I think the worst for your knees is if the seat is too low. Think about adding a brake as it would also allow you to go with shorter cranks (if you are strong enough to push them uphill). I have a similar pass climb in Italy at the Mendelpass that I love and will be doing it again in June (the pass part is just over 1000m but can be combined for about 1300m of pure uphill). I don't do it as a race, but usually the 1000m in about 1.5 hours. I've been doing lots of freestyle (and weight training) but need to start training muni uphill: June 1st is the uphill race in Villanders Italy that is relatively short but very steep and challenging. I would like to beat my time from last year (when I was pretty fit training for Unicon, so not an easy goal). ------------------------- MUCFreerider | 2025-04-01 07:11:18 UTC | #46 [quote="Setonix, post:32, topic:282458"] Don’t yous have sore knees when riding uphill? [/quote] I think it's a matter of long-term training, especially for the tendons and ligaments. I've been doing lots of uphill for about 10 years and also trying shorter cranks on the 29" where the forces are very high. I haven't had any knee problems from uphill uni (although I did have knee problems years before from uphill biking but I think from overtraining without buildup). After 3 ACL surguries (skiing and mountainbiking, now both knees) I had to build up my ligaments and tendons each time and deal with swelling during my rehab (about 18 months total, but of course never as good as before). Just "listen" to your knees/body and if it's swollen the next day, then rest and do a little less the next time. But being strong helps almost everything and regular training is key. Downhill with a low seat is not good for the knees. When I started muni I would put the seat really low for downhill as it felt safer. As I improved in skill I raised the seat progressively and now only lower the seat a few centimeters if I expect to be dismounting frequently in trial-like terrain (but rocks and drops). So for your knees, keep the seat as high as you can while still not feeling unsafe for unexpected dismounting. -------------------------