I wanted to bump this thread up to get a recommendation on what tire to use for XC/light muni on the 38mm KH XC rim.
By my reading, it seems like most of you guys really like the RR snakeskin 29x2.25, but I assume most of you are running that on the 47mm KH Freeride rim.
Would taking away that 9mm of rim width change your preference, or would the RR snakeskin 29x2.25 (paired with 26" tube) still be your first choice for the XC rim?
I have used a Navegal on my KH with the same rim. It works fine and is quite light. I have not tried many other tires on the 29". It came with a Stout, which is noticeably heavier and probably overkill for light-duty cross country.
I’m using a RR 29x2.4 (non-snakeskin) on a KH xc rim. I’m running it tubeless at about 25psi for fast xc rides/racing. I really like it, but if you want to do more hopping or big drops you may find it too flexible (or you could try putting a massive tube in it like Nurse Ben does, but then you may as well use a heavy tyre in the first place).
The 38mm rim is not too narrow for any of the 29er tires. You’ll have a little more rounding out of the sidewall, but not that much.
If you aren’t doing much vertical work, hopping, jumping, so staying within 12inches of the ground, then the RR 2.4 with a 26"HF tube is a great ride I ride mine at 18psi, which at my 200# is a really cushy ride with minimal side wall collapse. I think there are folks running the RR 2.25 snakeskin, which is more durable, but not hardly as volumonous
If you are going full muni, bigger drops, lots of hopping, I’d get the Dissent, it has a true DH pattern and firm sidewalls. It wasn’t my fav tire, but then I’m more of an XC rider, but Josh at UDC swears it’s the best tire since the Gazz!
Just an FYI, but if anyone is wanting a big wheel ride in a muni and isn’t satisfied with the 29er offerings, you can get the Surly Large Marge rim in a 26" and run a Larry tire which is a whopping 3.8" wide and has nearly the same diameter as the biggest 29er tire. I love my Larry
I think I’ll probably try out the RR 2.4 with a tube at first, then maybe graduate to tubeless. Did I read somewhere earlier in the thread that the RR 2.4 is now available with snakeskin sidewalls? Perhaps running that tire tubeless will provide the ultimate 29er XC/light muni ride. That is, until they come out with something better … next week.
I hadn’t heard that - although I’d be happy if it were true! I sliced the sidewall of my RR on a sharp rock not long after I bought it. Very annoying, but I patched it on both sides and it hasn’t caused any trouble since. The sidewalls are extremely thin though, like a road tyre (which is how they get the weight so low), so a bit of extra strength at the expense of a minimal weight increase would be well worth it IMO.
The RR 2.4 is a superb xc/race tyre for my style of riding (minimal hopping and no big drops). I ran it with a tube at first, but it was getting lots of thorn punctures so I decided to go tubeless with sealant. It’s not the easiest tyre to get inflated in tubeless mode because it’s so thin and floppy, but it gives an excellent ride - I was quite skeptical about tubeless but decided to go for it as I was going to use sealant anyway, and was extremely pleasantly surprised. The main down side to tubeless is it’s not really practical to change tyres often (very messy and wastes the sealant). Suits my race machine very well though.
The RR tread isn’t good in sticky mud because it clogs up and the spikes aren’t long enough, but in any other conditions, wet or dry, it grips really well. Oh, and it’s really light - but you already knew that
Over the past while I’ve had the chance to ride on a Maxxis Ardent 29x2.4. I really like this tire for the kinds of riding I like to do on a 29er (XC singletrack). It is very efficient for climbing but with somewhat beefier sidewalls than a RR, and enough volume IMO for a forgiving ride on descents (note - tested with a 47 mm wide rim). I think it’s a good choice for all-around XC rides, and might be a good choice for many riders on “average” trail conditions. In the other hand, particularly big, heavy riders riders pushing their technical limits on a 29er off drops or through rocky terrain, or riders who tend to be really hard on their equipment, might be better suited to the Dissent.
I’ve liked the grip of the Stout, but it’s really more than I need for the XC trails I mostly ride with the 29er. Any thoughts out there as to whether this is enough weight difference to notice much and justify the change?
(And Kris, no offense if you choose not to comment on comparing your standard issue tire with others. )
No worries =)
The Stout has a deeper tread pattern that likely contributes to somewhat higher resistance to tread wear, compared to the Ardent. Unless you are really fussy about weight I doubt it is worth the change, though, if your Stout is still in good condition.
In any case, WTB production has stopped production of the 29er Stout, so this will become a rare option in the future. If you really like the Stout (and I think it is also a good tire), this would be the time to get one before they run out.
Although I was a little skeptical of a recommendation from some guy named “danger_uni,” I went ahead and bought the Maxxis Ardent 29x2.4 and (once it arrived) mounted it up on the 38mm XC rim that came with my KH29 guni. (The tire that came with with the guni [I bought it “lightly used”] was a Schwalbe Big Apple 28x2.0, so this was a major step up in volume.) Well, today I finally got a chance to do some XC riding on the Ardent at a local park (Tanner Hollow) not too far from my home.
Turns out that “danger_uni” knew a thing or two about 29er tires when he made that recommendation. (Who would have guessed?)
Even mounted on the narrower XC rim, the Ardent-equipped KH29 tore it up! Such fun, zipping along dirt & gravel paths … even with me running it a 50 psi!
Why so much pressure? I kept it waaay up because I had to tackle some steep [9-11%] climbs on the bike path on the way home … and the high pressure Ardent handled the climbs beautifully. Climbs that I am still not strong enough to tackle on my NB Nightrider were only “moderately difficult” on the KH29 + Ardent.
Bottom line: I like the Ardent, even on the 38mm XC rim for XC & asphalt … and I know I’ll like it even more on the 47mm Freeride wheelset I intend to build once all the parts are back in stock. (No pressure Kris. I can wait … but not too long.) It seems pretty sturdy (with WTB 29er tube inside), and the sidewalls are beefed up by Maxxis’ woven material inserts (“EXO protection”) for increased abrasion & cut resistance. It’s pretty darned light (at 795g, manufacturer’s spec) and definitely seemed to track, grip and climb very well. I look forward to trying it on the wider rim at lower pressure soon.
Only drawback: Like a fool, I ordered the Ardent on-line from an outfit in San Diego, rather than picking it up at of my LBSs who had it in stock & for almost the same price. (I did this because there were several other parts & tools I wanted, which were not readily available locally, but were [supposedly] in stock at the San Diego outfit.) As a result of a backorder on one measly $10 accessory, it took the on-line seller 24 days to get me my new Ardent! Grrrrrr. Oh well, live & learn.
BTW, I know that “Saskat” posted some actual measured weights earlier in this thread, but I thought folks might be interested in some manufacturers spec weights I came across while shopping for a beefier tire for my 29er.
Here are some of my findings:
28x2.0 Schwalbe Big Apple (wire bead) = 820g (the original tire on my 29er)
29x2.4 Schwalbe Racing Ralph (folding bead) = 645g
29x2.4 Maxxis Ardent (folding bead) = 795g
29x2.0 Kenda Navegal (wire bead) = 805g
29x2.3 WTB Stout (folding bead) = 950g
29x2.5 WTB Dissent (wire bead) = 1,380g
Hope this helps you when faced with the difficult decision of picking a tire for your 29er.
I ride technical XC. Lots of hardpack and rocks with some DH sections. The biggest drops I encounter are 2’ or less. Mostly 1’ or less. Wondering which would be best for this kind of riding: the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 or the Dissent? I have the Stout now and like it just fine. It is getting a bit ragged and abused and wondering what to replace it with when it bites the dust.
How much climbing do you do? If a lot, you’ll probably appreciate the lighter weight in the Ardent enough for this to be a better option. If your focus is DH and you don’t mind pushing around more weight than you currently do with the Stout, the Dissent will be somewhat more forgiving. That’s particularly the case for riding styles that tend to bash through rocky sections versus using unweighting techniques. The tread pattern on the Dissent and heavier construction will mean it will likely last longer if you ride terrain that’s hard on tires. For technical XC, the Ardent does benefit from using a 47 mm wide rim because the geometry supports the lighter tire and gives it more stability.
I was thinking of trading my RRs for a couple Wierwolf LTs for a “little” project.
You mentioned that the Wierwolf had a tendency to steer into sidehills, is it much worse than a RR? Other than the sidehill issue they sound like a great tire.
The Wierwolf was a nice riding tire, I woudln’t say it was a terrible offender, maybe my second favorite tire after the RR, at least for XC riding.
I think it would be a good choice for your project, though I’m curious why you’d like one tire more than the other for your project
I’d like to see an Ardent 29er tire up close. Though I like the RR, I would still like something with a little more volume. I rode last night, was kinda tired, so ran lower pressure, and felt the RR was a little soft and risky for snakebites; thin sidewalls are like that.
The Dissent is an overkill for a 29er, too heavy, not that soft riding, likes to steer into sidehills. The 29" wheel is too tall for true muni unless you’re a giant, it’s really an XC uni, so a heavy treaded tire like the Dissent is wasted on it. On the other hand, a nice cushy tire which can be run with low pressure would make for a fast and relaxing XC ride.
How about a Larry’s Cousin 29 x 3, we’ll call him Moe
The terrain is pretty mixed with some technical climbs. Some of my rides include pretty rough volcanic rock that is hard on tires. Sounds like the Ardent might be a good option. Sounds like it would be ok for the DH bits and better for the rolling terrain.
Yesterday I was JRA (just riding along) the abandoned RR tracks/someday bikepath, when BLAM! Instant, total flat tire, complete with two finger-size holes in the tread of my WTB Stout. The tracks are gone, but this was at a point where there are still RR ties, and I assume I rode over some spiky pieces of residual metal.
This is a semi-emergency because I’m riding my KH29 in a race in one week.
As soon as I got home, I read this whole thread and, having trouble finding the Racing Ralph in stock, I followed danger_uni’s advice and ordered the Maxxis Ardent 29x2.4.
Arrived last night, first impressions are that the sidewall has some rubber on, feels more like a DH tire than an XC tire, tread is thicker than a Weirwolf or RR, but not as “hardy” as a Dissent or Kodiak. The Ardent has more of a DH pattern, though not as deep as the Minion, has a hard line of edge knobbies like a DH tire. Folding bead, takes some muscle to mount, but with work I was able to get on my KH FR rim without using levers. I’m running mine with a 26" DH tube, the really heavy doody ones that UDC uses.
Stats: 6’, 200#
Time riding" Started 2008, average 3x week, 5 hours/week
Riding location: Off road, single/double track 90/10 split
Riding style: Rolling, distance XC and light to moderate muni
Current 29er set up: KH frame, FR 47mm rim, KH fixed hub, 170 QuAx cranks, Schwalbe RR 2.4, DH 26" tube, running 18-20psi.
Previous Tires I rode: Dissent (too heavy for XC, steers into the sidehill), Kodiak (heavy, sucked all around), Stout (not enough tire), Weirwolf LT (okay tire, good all arounder), Mountain King (wimpy MTB tire, not worthy of muni).
And the review…
I started with 20psi, which felt a lot stiffer than the RR 2.4 at the same pressure, but it was not hardly as firm as the Dissent or Kodiak at the same pressure. Even at this higher pressure I didn’t find it unrideable, there was no steering into or away from the sidehill, it felt closer to a Stout than anything else I’ve ridden, but with more width and volume. If I was to compare it to another Maxxis tire, I’d say it’s more like a Minion, but lighter weight and more resilient, thinner tread, slightly softer sidewall.
Then I dropped the pressure to 18psi and the tire really came alive, more cush, more stability, smoother riding, and still far less sidewall collapse than the RR. This is one of my main complaints about the RR, the sidewall is just so soft that it collapses/rolls when run at lower pressures or when pushed hard. For XC this is okay, but get into some more tech stuff and it gets a little squirrely. I also worry about cutting the RR sidewall. I run the DH tube in my RR to help support the weak sidewall.
The sidewall in the Ardent has just the right amount of resilience for running at lower pressures without collapsing, while at the same time not being so stiff that it feels hard. The tread is moderately deep without overmatching the sidewalls. I’d call the Ardent a heavy duty XC tire, fitting nicely between the Stout and the Dissent. The sidewall in the Ardent is stiff enough that I could see running this tire tubeless or with a HD 29er tube, which would further drop some weight. Speaking of weight, the Ardent is not that heavy, about 1/2 the weight of a Dissent or Kodiak, just a smidge heavier than the very light RR 2.4. Maxxis, you done well on this tire
And yes, I left it on my uni, the RR is now hanging from a peg.
Another ride tonight, may be going tubeless on Thursday, another ride on Friday, then an eight hour race on Sunday.
Thanks for the review, Ben. Sounds like I’m going to like this tire choice. I have a race on Sunday as well - hoping to ride it in less than 4 hours, though. I can only hope I receive my Maxxis Ardent in the mail (from AEBike) in time.
My race, the Singlespeed-a-apalooza is two 12-mile laps on fairly flat, non-techy, buffed-out single-track. I hope to not win the D.F.L trophy.
I kept it waaay up because I had to tackle some steep [9-11%] climbs on the bike path on the way home … and the high pressure Ardent handled the climbs beautifully. Climbs that I am still not strong enough to tackle on my NB Nightrider were only “moderately difficult” on the KH29 + Ardent.
(No pressure Kris. I can wait … but not too long.) It seems pretty sturdy (with WTB 29er tube inside), and the sidewalls are beefed up by Maxxis’ woven material inserts (“EXO protection”) for increased abrasion & cut resistance. It’s pretty darned light (at 795g, manufacturer’s spec) and definitely seemed to track, grip and climb very well. I look forward to trying it on the wider rim at lower pressure soon.
Oh well, live & learn.
