Uhhh.... Unicon?

[GizmoDuck]

Originally Posted by tholub

The problem is changing the nature of an organization that shows no interest in changing. If they're going to spend ages arguing about whether 102 or 100 mm cranks should be allowed in a particular discipline, and insist that you spend a bunch of money and time running Standard Skill, which is pretty much freestyle, only more boring, they're not at the point of being able to address fundamental change. Our big accomplishment in U Games was to get them to allow us to not run the Slow Race, and that took weeks of argument. I'm not going to waste my time banging my head against that wall; I'm going to do the things I find useful and interesting.

Perhaps the Std Skill competitors would disagree, and it's a little subjective don't you think? What makes your disciplines less boring than standard skill?

[unicycledood]

The competitors of standard skill don't even watch their own event.

[tholub]

Originally Posted by GizmoDuck

Perhaps the Std Skill competitors would disagree, and it's a little subjective don't you think? What makes your disciplines less boring than standard skill?

Sure it's subjective. So what? If the event organizer doesn't want to run it, they shouldn't have to run it. If USA wants to insist that Standard Skill is run, they need to be the ones running the event, staffing it, and accepting the financial risk. Functional organizations have authority aligned with responsibility and accountability.

[GizmoDuck]

Originally Posted by unicycledood

The competitors of standard skill don't even watch their own event.

I don't watch my own event either. Sports are for doing, not watching.

[GizmoDuck]

Originally Posted by tholub

Sure it's subjective. So what? If the event organizer doesn't want to run it, they shouldn't have to run it. If USA wants to insist that Standard Skill is run, they need to be the ones running the event, staffing it, and accepting the financial risk. Functional organizations have authority aligned with responsibility and accountability.

I was talking about UNICON. What if UNICON organisers decided they did not want to run any MUni events?

There may be a time when we have to cull some events, as more keep being added without old events being dropped. But that's not for any one person with particular interests to decide.

[tholub]

Originally Posted by GizmoDuck

I was talking about UNICON. What if UNICON organisers decided they did not want to run any MUni events?

I wouldn't go, but that would be up to them to decide.

There may be a time when we have to cull some events, as more keep being added without old events being dropped. But that's not for any one person with particular interests to decide.

The cost of running Standard Skills is almost certainly higher than the value it brings. How many people would not show up at NAUCC if Standard Skills wasn't on offer? My guess would be, zero, so you're devoting hours of expensive gym time and judging time to an event that's not adding value.

That's a decision for the organizing committee to make, in any sport. And you're making my point; the fact that a particular event was offered in UNICON in 1985 shouldn't be determining whether we offer it in 2012. [In my opinion.] The sport has changed radically since 1985. And if the experience of being on an organizing committee is having to argue about whether we need to offer 100% of the events which were offered in 1985, or just 98% of them, I have better things to spend time on. I'd rather talk with IMBA about getting unicycle categories in mountain bike events, since we have a "new" discipline that deserves more attention than it gets from IUF/USA.

[unigoat]

The newer disciplines (Distance, MUni, Street, and Flatland come to mind) do need to be addressed.

Sorting what organizations to partner with can be a bit tricky. Unicycling doesn't want to get involved with USA Cycling. They do put on a lot of events and make sure the organizers have a lot of i's dotted and t's crossed, but it would make unicycling prohibitively expensive. The licensing fees for a USA Cycling event are quite pricey. I missed U Games due to a stage race we had here one of the weekends. I saw the USA Cycling end of things. For distance (and possibly MUni) it's a no go. Entry fees for the race were in the $100 range per bicycle rider. That, along with sponsors, covered the cost of the events. That's with 100+ riders. We were lucky that our local organizer let us run in parallel with the bicycles under Unicycling Society of America insurance. We had a hard time getting unicyclists to make the trip to here even with cheap entry fees. I'm not talking about those who went to U Games, I'm referring to the Ride the Lobster riders within a day's drive.

We've got local events to welcome unicycles. We've advertised for them here on the forums. Still, it's rare to attract more than 6 riders.

There isn't a huge concentration of unicyclists looking to make a trip to just MUni or distance race on this coast.

I think that's why the convention aspect of NAUCC is important. I don't ride standard skills, and I'm not sure how they're even run, but I'm not sure they can just be dropped either. Typically 200-300+ people attend NAUCC- may for different reasons. It's good we have many levels of competition at the NAUCC level as it may persuade riders to try something different.

I can't speak for the UNICON level. What is the balance of championships vs. convention supposed to be at the world level? There are events that riders need to qualify for, unlike NAUCC.

(I realize this went a bit in the NAUCC direction, but the discussion has strayed there as well.)

[ghenzo]

Originally Posted by unicycledood

Mhmm, I wish someone who could comment on this, would comment.

In Trieste, which is not too far from Bressanone and likely cheaper, having an ambulance at an event costs €40 (USD 50) base + 60-80(usd 75-100) per hour, depending on whether there is a physician or not. So the estimate of about 800 usd/day per ambulance sounds about right.

[tholub]

Originally Posted by unigoat

T
There isn't a huge concentration of unicyclists looking to make a trip to just MUni or distance race on this coast.

But we had 200+ riders making the trip to Moab for the Moab MUniFest.

We've had similar experiences to yours with one-off competitions on the west coast, but there is potential to be tapped into.

[unigoat]

From what I've read and experienced with IMBA is that they sponsor events more than organize them (unless they're in the advocacy realm). The Unicycling Society of America fills a similar role by being able to issue certificates of insurance for events.

If someone were to step up to organize the Moab MUnifest again, that level of support could be granted. It seems like someone out of the 200+ riders could step up to make it happen. I don't see how the 10 year organizer would just leave them hanging- I'd hope he'd (or she'd) be willing to at least share notes on how to make the event happen.

The solution to the financial risk being assumed by the national organization is tricky. If someone were to poorly organize an event and not get the costs met, then those who were not directly involved could be taking the hit.

It's also difficult to base the events on popularity. The Marathon is a relatively new event (at the national and international level). It isn't the most popular event, and could be a cost some would look to cut- especially if the NAUCC events are up to local clubs to host and the local club doesn't see the value in it. MUni too. I'd be willing to bet that due to the demographic of people who are organizers of events, there are few who ride Street and Flatland.

That doesn't mean that these events shouldn't be given a lot of attention- sometimes a disproportionate amount for the number of participants and the cost to put on that particular competition. Some of these newer events are thriving, not due to local clubs, but due to individual riders inspiring each other via YouTube, Vimeo, and the forums.

Hopefully as these newer forms of unicycling continue to take hold there are people who are willing to organize gatherings and competitions for the segments of unicycling they are passionate about. We've already been over it, but my experience in several instances is that it's very difficult to get people to show up for even a weekend full of events in a particular discipline.

At this point, the annual NAUCC week and the bi-annual UNICON are the best draws for unicyclists we have. If there were problems with some events being shortchanged due to the oversights of the organizers, those issues need addressed.

I completely agree that we need to explore outside avenues for broadening the sport. At this point we need to also focus on changing the perceptions of the general public about unicycling. I know as we're organizing for 2013, we'll be scheduling standard skills gym space and freestyle space even though those aren't our passions. It is important we do enlist experts in those fields to help us run the events. Those events are still very important to our version of NAUCC because there are a lot of riders who will make the trip for Freestyle in particular. It's an area that the large clubs support well. We're also putting a large emphasis on accommodating the Street and Flatland riders even though they'll most likely be outnumbered by the number of Freestyle riders (Trials too, but we do a bit of Trials and at NAUCC many participants ride Trials even if at the beginner level).

What we really are hoping to do is make publicity to the non-unicycling world a high priority so that they can see the vast array of disciplines within unicycling. The general public needs to know about the distance events (although most probably won't be interested in watching the marathon, they need to know that unis go that far and that fast). The general public needs to know that MUni isn't watered down mountain biking. The general public needs to see how close Street, Trials, and Flatland are to what happens on the X-Games. We're looking into a venue change so that basketball and hockey are in a space with higher foot traffic.

We're working with our tourism board to get local media outlets to make the general public aware of the event. Hopefully our local connections will benefit the sport on a larger level so that we'll have better events in the disciplines we're passionate about.

[tholub]

Originally Posted by unigoat

What we really are hoping to do is make publicity to the non-unicycling world a high priority so that they can see the vast array of disciplines within unicycling. The general public needs to know about the distance events (although most probably won't be interested in watching the marathon, they need to know that unis go that far and that fast). The general public needs to know that MUni isn't watered down mountain biking. The general public needs to see how close Street, Trials, and Flatland are to what happens on the X-Games. We're looking into a venue change so that basketball and hockey are in a space with higher foot traffic.

We're working with our tourism board to get local media outlets to make the general public aware of the event. Hopefully our local connections will benefit the sport on a larger level so that we'll have better events in the disciplines we're passionate about.

That all sounds good. You'll find that it's difficult but it sounds like you've got the right approach.

I would firmly suggest that you jettison the "NAUCC" name in your communications with non-unicyclists. Call it U Games, or come up with your own name, but "NAUCC" is a total loser for publicity.

We were able to get the local mountain bike advocacy group to help with our MUni venues, and a number of them came out to help us as course monitors. That relationship lasted past U Games and it's still valuable today. I happen to know a woman (Eryn Hughes) who's in the mountain biking community in Pittsburgh who's an organizer type; I don't think she's learned to uni yet but she was interested when she lived out here. http://www.velomuse.org/.

Also, if you don't know about this place, you should:
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...mewood-636804/

[MadFurai]

It sounds like you guys have the right intentions for sure. I think Unicycling will continue to be a niche sport, but I also think people would be much more interested in watching/attending these events if they knew more about the disciplines. I also agree with tholub that if people see an advertisement that says "NAUCC 2013" in big letters, they probably won't bother to read the fine print unless they already know what it is.

Originally Posted by unigoat

I completely agree that we need to explore outside avenues for broadening the sport. At this point we need to also focus on changing the perceptions of the general public about unicycling.

What we really are hoping to do is make publicity to the non-unicycling world a high priority so that they can see the vast array of disciplines within unicycling. The general public needs to know about the distance events (although most probably won't be interested in watching the marathon, they need to know that unis go that far and that fast). The general public needs to know that MUni isn't watered down mountain biking. The general public needs to see how close Street, Trials, and Flatland are to what happens on the X-Games. We're looking into a venue change so that basketball and hockey are in a space with higher foot traffic.

We're working with our tourism board to get local media outlets to make the general public aware of the event. Hopefully our local connections will benefit the sport on a larger level so that we'll have better events in the disciplines we're passionate about.

[unigoat]

Tom- thanks for the name suggestion, and the use of U Games. I'm not sure what we'll do yet. The public does need to know it's unicycling. A headline of NAUCC or even U Games doesn't convey that. On a side note, the logo for U Games was great. To be honest, print media hasn't been at the forefront at this point- although an experience that some of our riders had at a demo session at a cycling event last weekend may have helped tremendously. We've got a local media group that does radio and web work interested.

We've got the bike groups on board so far. We have a 23 year old off road local race series on board, the Month of Mud (up to 200 riders per race), and some road groups on board too. The local Rail Trail group is in support too.

I know we're in for a difficult ride. We've got budget numbers from past events. To raise money for better courses without pushing costs through the roof we're really seeking outside sponsors. Our local tourism board is helping with that too. They've already noted that "unicycle nationals" will be here next year in the local paper as well as their own newsletter that goes to businesses throughout the county. Butler County Tourism just launched initiatives to land major sporting events in the county. Unicycling absolutely qualifies.

Thanks for the tip on Eryn. I don't know if I know her or not (I may have met her at a race).

As far as the Wheel Mill goes, it's awesome. I've met Harry in person and our trials course builder (a not yet unicyclist) has been helping him get the park going. We're hoping to have a symbiotic relationship with them for sure.

I'm not so sure any headline can catch people's attention and draw them to the event. We hope to repeatedly expose them to the concept that unicycles are amazing- and a whole lot of fun!

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by unigoat

One of the highlights of NAUCC '12 was the Crit course. Best Crit ever. The course happened when several people put their heads together and made the best of an unfortunate situation.

Sounds fascinating--I haven't heard anything about it. What was the unfortunate situation?

Originally Posted by unigoat

As for Flatland at NAUCC '12, it was held in the gym. This was a wise decision.

It's nice to have choices. A reality for Flatland, at least in the near future, is that a secondary location is likely to be indoors (due to weather, etc). All competitors should keep that in mind. An indoor surface is very different from outdoor pavement, but at least it's the same for everyone else.

Originally Posted by unigoat

At the NAUCC level, the local hosting club gets a lot on their plate in terms of making ends meet (I'm sure UNICON does too, but I can't speak from that experience). It can be tricky for smaller clubs in new locations to get the infrastructure of venues on board.

It has always been a weakness that most convention hosts are first-timers. Though there is some degree of expert (experienced) help, future hosts need more support and backup from experienced event organizers. I think the IUF is working on this for next time. USA hosts would definitely benefit from this idea as well.

Thank you in advance for taking on the challenge, even if NAUCC '13 sucks! Which it won't, but my point is that without people like Unigoat, we don't have any conventions in the first place. These things are whoppers to organize, and the first best solution to these types of problems is to support your event organizers. I have no plans of missing 2013!

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

What should be happening is that each participant should have a volunteer requirement.

Also an interesting idea. The vast majority of attendees should have enough time at a large unicycle convention to set aside some of it for volunteering. The majority of volunteer jobs are non-specialized and easy.

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

I plan to attend the NAUCC 2013, not as a completitor, not as a spectator, but as a volunteer.

Bad idea. Not the volunteer part, but the non-competitor part. These things are set up for participation and you'll get a lot more out of your convention experience if you enter at least a few events. I highly recommend it. As well as volunteering, for all the rest of you.

Originally Posted by Julia B

That will just result in far fewer people registering, as far as I can tell.

No, it wouldn't. And there will be some people who might not be able to volunteer much, such as single parents of small children, etc., but for people who decide they'd rather not go if they have to help, our sport really doesn't need them at the big conventions IMHO.

Originally Posted by Julia B

What irks me is that, in terms of competitions, I went to unicon for flatland. And the venue was free, the judges were volunteers, as far as I can tell there was no money spent on flatland. But all of the competitors still payed 160+ Euros.

I'm pretty sure you at least watched some events outside of Flatland, attended some workshops, maybe a show, met some people, etc. The registration price isn't based on events entered. Like I mentioned above, the idea has been tossed around about registering by competition event. But because of the economics of running these things, I think it would just inflate the "general" part of the registration cost anyway.

Originally Posted by Julia B

At a bare minimum, I expected a suitable location to be provided beforehand, which was provided for every other event.

A reasonable request to be sure. Sounds like someone dropped the ball for Flatland (it has happened for other events in the past), though I don't know the details.

Originally Posted by knoxuni

Julia I feel for ya. spending money and not seeing the return!

I also feel bad that she isn't seeing the return on the price of registration at Unicon XVI.

Originally Posted by sarah.miller

China did not have a tradition of unicycle hockey, the hockey tournamnet could not start untill the hockey players had nagged the organisers into buying some lumber, screws & debris net and then built a set of goals......

Don't get me started about China... Remember that group MUni trip we had to keep redefining until we actually got a location? And the Track results that they basically refused to fix, and then never shared with us afterward... Things have gotten a lot more organized since then (uh, and before then too). Great to hear from you, Sarah!

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

Is it possible that some events received less resources/emphasis due to the average age of the competitors in the events? Youth generally don't have the resources of their adult counterparts, so maybe the events that attracted older participants also attracted more resources...

I think it's less about age of participants and more about previous experience with the event. Flatland is still pretty new and has a much smaller group of experienced organizers. Also there may have been assumptions by the hosts that the requirements for the event were less than they actually are. But I don't think it was that; sounds more like a screw-up of some kind, where the plan was there, but something (or someone) went wrong.

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

It's a shame that unicycling can't attract more sponsorship.

It's tough, because unicycling is still not a "money" sport. Other sports generate more revenue for someone, somewhere. What do we have, beyond the unicycles? Unicycles are still made in relatively tiny numbers, so there's little money to be made there. Safety gear? Clothing? Food? All are possibilities. The major hurdle is probably still related to the small participation in our sport. Also perhaps the lack of people with business experience that are interested in working on such things.

Originally Posted by unicycledood

Wheres my money? In their f***ing pockets. You know there are strong rumours that the freestyle hall and track grounds were free, hmm?

"Strong" rumors are like strong odors; best avoided. Rumors are usually crap. Unicon organizers take a gargantuan financial risk in hosting one of these things. If they come out in the black, good for them. Usually they don't, or they more-or-less break even.

Originally Posted by unicycledood

Screw the unicon organizers, seriously, I give credit when credit is due and they don't deserve any of it. If it weren't for the riders, the street and flat riders, there would have been no street or flat competition... How shit is that?

You seem to be missing an important point. Were it not for the Unicon organizers, there wouldn't have been any other competitions, or a reason to go to Brixen. So screw anyone that doesn't get that.

Really dood. I know there were some big problems with your main events, and that sucked. There are always problems, sometimes insurmountable ones. In the end, volunteers made good things happen, and that's the way it usually works. You are right to expect a little more in preparation, but to act as though the convention organizers are professional Unicon organizers is silly.

If you ever come to a unicycling event that I organize, I'll be sure to write up a special disclaimer, or contract if you will, of what to expect at a volunteer-run, low-budget unicycle competition.

[Hugo_Duguay]

Please guys, don't scare us too much for Montreal 2014 ! And also, please don't read whatever is written under my name at the left of your screen...

More seriously, we took tons of notes during the event, but the more feedback we can get is the best. We make sure to read them all.