Saddle physics... - Page 2

Nurse Ben · 2012-05-15, 07:18 PM

Paded bike shorts work on bikes because the seats are narrower at the nose, so the boyz have a place to go, but on a uni saddle the nose is wide so they get squished unless they are kept "high", above the seat. Also, why do we need more padding, uni seats are well padded already...

I have tried a number of different shorts, two of which have a built in "jock", more like a boyz hammock that keeps your stuff centered. They are made by Sugoi and Pearl Izumi. I prefer the Sugoi Turbo Jammers, but the edges of the hammock chafe me, so now I am using some Sugoi Tri shorts that have the chamoi removed, this works better, though at time I get excess material in between the boyz and my thighs, which leads to chaffing.

I think the answer is a narrower and firmer seat, let the experiments begin...

aracer · 2012-05-15, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

I think the answer is a narrower and firmer seat, let the experiments begin...

So what do we reckon? A bike seat with an upturned nose bit added on? I'm thinking not too extreme a thing (like the SLR I use on a bike) - but I have some good old fashioned, narrow bike seats in my bits bin if anybody can suggest how to modify one. I have to admit I am still thinking that I'd want a bit more cushioning in a saddle on a uni than on a bike though.

FWIW I do wear bike shorts when riding a uni - I find they do help to reduce chafing compared to other things I've tried. Though actually quite often I'm in tri shorts with minimal padding, as I tend to mix riding a uni in with other stuff (like playing with my kids) where the tri shorts are less obtrusive (I do actually prefer to run in tri shorts as well - I find they rub less than anything else).

stillup · 2012-05-16, 01:00 AM

I've probably tried most of the saddles out there...and there is good and bad in all of them...I was looking for the magic comfort seat..but I don't think it exists.
I carved up a coker saddle trying to make it fit me...nope....I really like the fusion freeride except for the stretchy material on top ..its like cloth sandpaper. but bike shorts takes care of most of that..but I can ride a long ways before I get really uncomfortable and then I just pull over and stretch.. the Quax air saddle is nice the material feels really nice ..if they would put that stuff on the fusion freeride I think they would have something... but the Nimbus gel that I just got with the 26 muni. is kinda growing on me.. I can ride for hours and not get tired of it......the Quax air saddle is nice to.....but I still think that magic saddle is out there someplace..

Dartmech · 2012-05-16, 07:03 AM

I went for a 4-5 mile ride today on my Torker 26" with the BRICK of a seat. Its narrow tho like I mentioned before. Without bike shorts and boxers I felt a little chaffing about halfway. That may have been a good thing tho because I learned the importance of leaning on the handle for some relief.
That seat can easily be compressed and the plastic can be felt easily. I found with the front and back heights almost equal and sort of tilting my pelvis up a bit, using my ass more relieved tension on the boys.
It'd be nice to find some shorts with padding that isn't so tight like bike shorts or just around the ass/thighs that don't "tuck" my junk, but maybe the padding on the seat will make up for that.
This probably didn't give anyone any information but that's just what happened today.
I never thought I'd be involved in a forum like this, haha..

Tirving · 2012-05-16, 03:33 PM

I've found that the best padded shorts for unicycling would be one where the padding could act as a "shelf" for the twig and berries to keep them up and out of the way. I experimented with some old bike shorts by cutting out the padding at the top but it would work even better to create a "twig and berries sock" so that everything sits in its own vestibule, supported by the padding underneath (taint). I think it would be a good idea to come up with a prototype. It was nice not to have to keep grabbing everything and pulling it up and awesome not to have my junk squashed by the padding.

maestro8 · 2012-05-16, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tirving

It was nice not to have to keep grabbing everything and pulling it up and awesome not to have my junk squashed by the padding

Duct tape. Problem solved.

blueharmony · 2012-05-17, 02:53 AM

I bought a couple of plastic athletic cups and removed most of the inside part leaving the just frame. The hope was the frame would hold eveything up and out of the way while allowing stuff to move around as needed.

Well, it didn't work quite as expected. Sitting on the end of the frame (between your legs) is uncomfortable and the jock doesn't hold the frame as high and tight as one would think. If the frame moves too much you run the risk of it pinching something that should never be pinched (by average people). I suppose a seat could be molded to allow more room down there but since everybody's body is different it would be very difficult to standardize a design.

I'm seriously considering a narrower seat as well. My Fusion Freeride is nice and soft but I almost always end up with chafing on my thighs even after a short ride. Maybe too soft. I'd like to try the KH slim one of these days.

Milosboy · 2012-05-17, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueharmony

I bought a couple of plastic athletic cups and removed most of the inside part leaving the just frame. The hope was the frame would hold eveything up and out of the way while allowing stuff to move around as needed.

Well, it didn't work quite as expected. Sitting on the end of the frame (between your legs) is uncomfortable and the jock doesn't hold the frame as high and tight as one would think. If the frame moves too much you run the risk of it pinching something that should never be pinched (by average people). I suppose a seat could be molded to allow more room down there but since everybody's body is different it would be very difficult to standardize a design.

Oh geez... I was reading an article on Cracked yesterday called The 7 Creepiest Inventions Ever Patented For The Crotch. That, sir, is number 8. It honestly sounds torturous.

That may just be because I've never worn a cup though. I guess you could say I'm not much of an athletic supporter

MadFurai · 2012-05-17, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dartmech

OOOOhkay, You know how you can get a "FIT" on a bicycle?
I know this topic is all over the place but I did my first trail ride today and... whoa... I thought I had the seat pretty comfy but I was wrong.
SO..
I can sit on a bicycle seat just fine half the size, if not less, than my nimbus gel for a couple of hours.

To the original post, not sure why nobody has mentioned this to you yet, but the Nimbus Gel saddles are known to have a much larger curve than other saddles. I recently switched from the Nimbus gel to the Fusion Freeride and it was much easier on my family jewels. However, the Fusion Freeride is not as soft on the butt cheeks, and it took me a few weeks to get used to it.

MrImpossible · 2012-05-17, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tirving

...it would work even better to create a "twig and berries sock" so that everything sits in its own vestibule, supported by the padding underneath (taint).

I have a few pairs of snug fitting brief-type underwear in wicking fabrics like coolmax; they have a pouch in front that keeps everything in place. I wear one of those with the bike shorts over them. It works a lot better than either one of them alone, and no need to be a mad fabric scientist sewing up crazy new garments. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

aracer · 2012-05-17, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadFurai

To the original post, not sure why nobody has mentioned this to you yet, but the Nimbus Gel saddles are known to have a much larger curve than other saddles. I recently switched from the Nimbus gel to the Fusion Freeride and it was much easier on my family jewels. However, the Fusion Freeride is not as soft on the butt cheeks, and it took me a few weeks to get used to it.

Do they? I've been busy doing lots of research on saddles and definitely can't remember seeing that mentioned before. That puts the cat amongst the pigeons for me - would make a KH Freeride an option, when I thought I'd have just the same issues with it.

Will compare with the Nimbus Flat I've just had delivered - and report back on that when I've ridden with it a bit (I think you were asking?) It came with my new custom build Equinox trials, which it probably will eventually find a home on, but to start with I'll probably try it on my muni.

Nurse Ben · 2012-05-17, 01:48 PM

So, after following along with this thread for a few days, I decided to take action:

First I purchased 1/4" and 1/2" minicell foam, this is a cloased cell foam, typically grey in color, resists water and salts, moderately soft, fairly resilient, commonly used in kayaks to pad seats and thigh grips.

Next, the volunteer, a well worn KH Freeride 2009 Seat, this is the current seat base mold use in KH and Nimbus seats.

I carefully removed the seat pad, scraped the tape and goo clear, then started fashioning the minicell foam into seat sized pieces. I made a bunch of full sized pads in both thicknesses as well as some "shims" to flatten the seat.

Some observations: With the seat foam removed, the seat base has far more curvature than one would expect from looking at the seat with the foam and cover installed. The seat foam is thicker in the middle to flatten out this curvature. Also, the KH foam appears to be dual density, with the inner foam being considerably denser than the outer foam. Maybe Kris could comment on this??

So I went through many iterations of adding foam, increasing and decreasing thickness at the waist, butt, etc... I found that the minicell approximates the softer foam in the KH seat, but did not have enough "secondary" density to keep from bottoming out; get it, I made a joke

In the end (that's another joke son) I found that my efforts at building a better foam for the existing base were a failure, the KH dual density foam is good stuff, well desined for the application. I do think a flatter, and narrower seat base would be usefull, but the foam padding that KH is using would be necessary to achieve the same comfort, to include the center relief channel.

I'm not quite prepared to make my own base, but I think it would be interesting to use the current foam on a flatter base, then sculpt the foam. I already do a little foam sculpting, narrowing the waist forwad of my sit bones to within a couple inches of the seat nose, this provides more room for the jewels.

Also, I have noticed that the newest seats (2011-12) have a firmer seat foam, this could be due to my 29er seat foam being a couple years old, so when I swapped seats between my 29er and my new 36er, I have improved seat firmness and some relief for the jewels.

MadFurai · 2012-05-17, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aracer

Do they? I've been busy doing lots of research on saddles and definitely can't remember seeing that mentioned before. That puts the cat amongst the pigeons for me - would make a KH Freeride an option, when I thought I'd have just the same issues with it.

Will compare with the Nimbus Flat I've just had delivered - and report back on that when I've ridden with it a bit (I think you were asking?) It came with my new custom build Equinox trials, which it probably will eventually find a home on, but to start with I'll probably try it on my muni.

This comparison was done before the newest releases, but it at least shows my point about the curvature in the Nimbus Gel compared to the Fusion Freeride and other saddles. Check the post below:

http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...07&postcount=1

Dartmech · 2012-05-17, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadFurai

To the original post, not sure why nobody has mentioned this to you yet, but the Nimbus Gel saddles are known to have a much larger curve than other saddles. I recently switched from the Nimbus gel to the Fusion Freeride and it was much easier on my family jewels. However, the Fusion Freeride is not as soft on the butt cheeks, and it took me a few weeks to get used to it.

That's probably exactly why I posted in the first place. I did not have a problem with my cheap (although uncomfortable) Torker LX seat, my LX pro is narrow and firm all around but they are both relatively flat. The GEL that came on my nimbus was the only one that IMMEDIATELY smashed my crotch to the point of "planned dismounts" for some relief.
I ordered another LX pro seat, since they're $35 on amazon, to give it a try on my other various unis.
Looking at the picture comparison, the freeride will probably be my next choice. I'll need to find someone that has one I can try, but I like what I see...

uniShark · 2012-05-17, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dartmech

That's probably exactly why I posted in the first place. I did not have a problem with my cheap (although uncomfortable) Torker LX seat, my LX pro is narrow and firm all around but they are both relatively flat. The GEL that came on my nimbus was the only one that IMMEDIATELY smashed my crotch to the point of "planned dismounts" for some relief.
I ordered another LX pro seat, since they're $35 on amazon, to give it a try on my other various unis.
Looking at the picture comparison, the freeride will probably be my next choice. I'll need to find someone that has one I can try, but I like what I see...

I trimmed the foam on my Torker LX seat to make the edges less square. That helped a lot.

. . . but the KH Freeride is much better, and the KH Street is even better yet.

2012-05-15, 07:18 PM	#16
Nurse Ben XC Muni Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Southeast USA Age: 47 Posts: 3,974	Paded bike shorts work on bikes because the seats are narrower at the nose, so the boyz have a place to go, but on a uni saddle the nose is wide so they get squished unless they are kept "high", above the seat. Also, why do we need more padding, uni seats are well padded already... I have tried a number of different shorts, two of which have a built in "jock", more like a boyz hammock that keeps your stuff centered. They are made by Sugoi and Pearl Izumi. I prefer the Sugoi Turbo Jammers, but the edges of the hammock chafe me, so now I am using some Sugoi Tri shorts that have the chamoi removed, this works better, though at time I get excess material in between the boyz and my thighs, which leads to chaffing. I think the answer is a narrower and firmer seat, let the experiments begin... __________________ I dream of hamsters and elderberries

2012-05-16, 03:33 PM	#20
Tirving Portland Chiropractor & Unicyclist Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Portland, OR, USA Age: 38 Posts: 796	I've found that the best padded shorts for unicycling would be one where the padding could act as a "shelf" for the twig and berries to keep them up and out of the way. I experimented with some old bike shorts by cutting out the padding at the top but it would work even better to create a "twig and berries sock" so that everything sits in its own vestibule, supported by the padding underneath (taint). I think it would be a good idea to come up with a prototype. It was nice not to have to keep grabbing everything and pulling it up and awesome not to have my junk squashed by the padding. __________________ Unicycling Chiropractor Portland, Oregon

2012-05-17, 02:53 AM	#22
blueharmony Kenny Cason Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Snoqualmie, WA USA Age: 53 Posts: 473	I bought a couple of plastic athletic cups and removed most of the inside part leaving the just frame. The hope was the frame would hold eveything up and out of the way while allowing stuff to move around as needed. Well, it didn't work quite as expected. Sitting on the end of the frame (between your legs) is uncomfortable and the jock doesn't hold the frame as high and tight as one would think. If the frame moves too much you run the risk of it pinching something that should never be pinched (by average people). I suppose a seat could be molded to allow more room down there but since everybody's body is different it would be very difficult to standardize a design. I'm seriously considering a narrower seat as well. My Fusion Freeride is nice and soft but I almost always end up with chafing on my thighs even after a short ride. Maybe too soft. I'd like to try the KH slim one of these days. __________________ - Kenny

2012-05-17, 01:48 PM	#27
Nurse Ben XC Muni Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Southeast USA Age: 47 Posts: 3,974	So, after following along with this thread for a few days, I decided to take action: First I purchased 1/4" and 1/2" minicell foam, this is a cloased cell foam, typically grey in color, resists water and salts, moderately soft, fairly resilient, commonly used in kayaks to pad seats and thigh grips. Next, the volunteer, a well worn KH Freeride 2009 Seat, this is the current seat base mold use in KH and Nimbus seats. I carefully removed the seat pad, scraped the tape and goo clear, then started fashioning the minicell foam into seat sized pieces. I made a bunch of full sized pads in both thicknesses as well as some "shims" to flatten the seat. Some observations: With the seat foam removed, the seat base has far more curvature than one would expect from looking at the seat with the foam and cover installed. The seat foam is thicker in the middle to flatten out this curvature. Also, the KH foam appears to be dual density, with the inner foam being considerably denser than the outer foam. Maybe Kris could comment on this?? So I went through many iterations of adding foam, increasing and decreasing thickness at the waist, butt, etc... I found that the minicell approximates the softer foam in the KH seat, but did not have enough "secondary" density to keep from bottoming out; get it, I made a joke In the end (that's another joke son) I found that my efforts at building a better foam for the existing base were a failure, the KH dual density foam is good stuff, well desined for the application. I do think a flatter, and narrower seat base would be usefull, but the foam padding that KH is using would be necessary to achieve the same comfort, to include the center relief channel. I'm not quite prepared to make my own base, but I think it would be interesting to use the current foam on a flatter base, then sculpt the foam. I already do a little foam sculpting, narrowing the waist forwad of my sit bones to within a couple inches of the seat nose, this provides more room for the jewels. Also, I have noticed that the newest seats (2011-12) have a firmer seat foam, this could be due to my 29er seat foam being a couple years old, so when I swapped seats between my 29er and my new 36er, I have improved seat firmness and some relief for the jewels. __________________ I dream of hamsters and elderberries

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2012-05-16, 01:00 AM	#18
stillup Registered User Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Oklahoma City , ok Posts: 55	I've probably tried most of the saddles out there...and there is good and bad in all of them...I was looking for the magic comfort seat..but I don't think it exists. I carved up a coker saddle trying to make it fit me...nope....I really like the fusion freeride except for the stretchy material on top ..its like cloth sandpaper. but bike shorts takes care of most of that..but I can ride a long ways before I get really uncomfortable and then I just pull over and stretch.. the Quax air saddle is nice the material feels really nice ..if they would put that stuff on the fusion freeride I think they would have something... but the Nimbus gel that I just got with the 26 muni. is kinda growing on me.. I can ride for hours and not get tired of it......the Quax air saddle is nice to.....but I still think that magic saddle is out there someplace..

2012-05-16, 07:03 AM	#19
Dartmech Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 115	I went for a 4-5 mile ride today on my Torker 26" with the BRICK of a seat. Its narrow tho like I mentioned before. Without bike shorts and boxers I felt a little chaffing about halfway. That may have been a good thing tho because I learned the importance of leaning on the handle for some relief. That seat can easily be compressed and the plastic can be felt easily. I found with the front and back heights almost equal and sort of tilting my pelvis up a bit, using my ass more relieved tension on the boys. It'd be nice to find some shorts with padding that isn't so tight like bike shorts or just around the ass/thighs that don't "tuck" my junk, but maybe the padding on the seat will make up for that. This probably didn't give anyone any information but that's just what happened today. I never thought I'd be involved in a forum like this, haha..

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