UNICON XV MUni Race Results & Uni Setups

[GizmoDuck]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

I go both ways on that one. The longer the total distance, the more acceptable (for me) it is to have some walking sections.

This is where I've been working on for several years to try and rectify....and will be trying again this year. An XC race is the fastest from start to finish. There has to be running allowed...what on earth is walking trying to prove? In 1997 the Mountainbike World Cup was held on Mt Victoria. I recall a guy by the name of Cadel Evans (podium finishes at the TDF, current Road Cycling World Champ, previous MTB World Cup series Champ) running a technical section and winning that race. Cross-country is about speed and endurance...it is not off-road trials so there is nothing to prove by walking a section instead of running it. If anyone feels the same way then feel free to join us on the next IUF rulebook committee.

Originally Posted by johnfoss

Unicon XV is now a part of history. A large number of people worked their butts off to make it a success. For the bits that people didn't like, we can use them as examples of things to avoid in the future. In fact the MUni section in the 2010 IUF Rulebook has updated information in it to address some of the problems encountered in previous Unicon events. Suggestions for changes are welcome. I very much look forward to Unicon XVI and the mountain emphasis.

The most recent IUF rulebook 2010 recommends that Cross-Country is at least 5km long. It's still nowhere near adequate, but addresses issues at previous Unicons where they have been 10min races. In my view, a World Championship XC race needs to be at least 1hr long (which equates to 10-15km depending on how technical the terrrain is). That is simply to reflect what regular Muni riders do. Most people ride for at least an hour if they were to go out on a MUni ride.

Originally Posted by johnfoss

I can't wait to see what David W. has in store for us!

For 'serious' cross-country riders, he would need a minimum 3-4hr race- probably 40-60km, if he is to be consistent with his view on the Unicon XV downhill course.

I can hardly wait (*drool*)

Do we get to dress up as clowns if it's anything less?

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by tholub

The "CON" portion of the name of the event stands for CONVENTION. It is not only about the elite competitors; it is also about several hundred people who in this case came halfway around the world to participate in the events. There were almost 200 people signed up for the cross-country MUni race, which for someone like me represented possibly the most fun event of the week.

Frankly, the XC course was inappropriate and dangerous for the bulk of the participants.

I was in the first start group of 25 riders. Of those 25, perhaps 20 of them walked on the first uphill, including some very strong climbers. Two downhill sections were harder than anything on the downhill course; again, most riders likely walked most of them. The XC race shouldn't be forcing most of the field to walk significant portions of the course.

I am a strong MUni rider; I do more XC MUni than any other activity. I wouldn't have wanted to race on that course even if I had my 24", which I didn't (I was on a 29"). The technical bits were too steep and had too high consequences to ride at race speed for all but the most elite riders. On my 29er, I walked them all--and still came in second in my age group and in the top third of all riders.

I'm the MUni director for NAUCC this year, and I am going to ensure that the courses are competitive for the top riders, but rideable by any reasonably strong rider. Because it sucks to travel for an event and not really get to participate.

The CON side of the convention was covered with the ride at Makara peak. It was a MUni ride that was not competitive so people who registered as non-competitor (or CON) could take part. The cross country was never intended to be a conventional ride- it was a World Champion competition! Part of being a skilled rider involves knowing which obstacles to ride fast on. You say "too steep and had too high consequences at race speed" but race speed is something each rider decides. Some people just go to have fun and walk the bits that are too dangerous, and that is their race speed. The rules stated only 10 meters of walking at a time maximum- I doubt that was practical.

In both the marathon and the XC a lot of riders who considered themselves strong had to walk quite often- the photos are full of walkers!

Who is editing the Uni setups in the lap time thingy?
You can add my 28" singlespeed with 89mm cranks to the description of Marathon lap times if you want. It is funny how Tony had two unis for that.

[SkierAlex]

Originally Posted by tholub

The "CON" portion of the name of the event stands for CONVENTION. It is not only about the elite competitors; it is also about several hundred people who in this case came halfway around the world to participate in the events. There were almost 200 people signed up for the cross-country MUni race, which for someone like me represented possibly the most fun event of the week.

Frankly, the XC course was inappropriate and dangerous for the bulk of the participants.

I was in the first start group of 25 riders. Of those 25, perhaps 20 of them walked on the first uphill, including some very strong climbers. Two downhill sections were harder than anything on the downhill course; again, most riders likely walked most of them. The XC race shouldn't be forcing most of the field to walk significant portions of the course.

I am a strong MUni rider; I do more XC MUni than any other activity. I wouldn't have wanted to race on that course even if I had my 24", which I didn't (I was on a 29"). The technical bits were too steep and had too high consequences to ride at race speed for all but the most elite riders. On my 29er, I walked them all--and still came in second in my age group and in the top third of all riders.

I'm the MUni director for NAUCC this year, and I am going to ensure that the courses are competitive for the top riders, but rideable by any reasonably strong rider. Because it sucks to travel for an event and not really get to participate.

So save your "whinger" comment for the guys who are complaining about finishing outside the top 15 in the downhill because they fell on the course they're claiming was too easy. Oh, wait, that was you.

It's the world champs, it's meant to be hard. Grow some balls, or don't compete! If you want to compete in an extreme type of unicycling be prepared to push yourself and try something out of your comfort zone.

Something noone has mentioned yet is the program. Which was released a good 2 weeks before unicon.

"Muni: Downhill

The downhill is a steep singletrack descent down Mt Victoria, with roots, crazy cambers and big gnarly trees that will jump out at you from nowhere. Approximately 600m in length, descending about 100m. NZ MUni experts recommended wheelsize: a 24" with a 150mm cranks and a brake. A 29" is suitable only if you enjoy flying through the air like Superman/Superwoman."

How can you change a course because of a map when a map shows nothing about the course? I can't choose which unicycle to bring or know what the track will be like from a map. A lot of people including myself brought 24" unicycles for the DH but then we find out that a 29" will probably be fastest. Not very fair IMO.

[tholub]

Originally Posted by GizmoDuck

This is where I've been working on for several years to try and rectify....and will be trying again this year. An XC race is the fastest from start to finish. There has to be running allowed...what on earth is walking trying to prove?

If running is allowed--why bother bringing the unicycle? You could probably run the XC course faster than you could unicycle it. Unicycle races should include, you know, unicycles.

[GizmoDuck]

Originally Posted by tholub

If running is allowed--why bother bringing the unicycle? You could probably run the XC course faster than you could unicycle it. Unicycle races should include, you know, unicycles.

The same can be said of MTB racing.

[SkierAlex]

Originally Posted by tholub

There was a section on the "easy" downhill course which was quite steep and relatively technical. I sat and watched maybe 20 riders attempt it, with no more than one or two riding it successfully. I was on a 29er and walked most of it; I probably would have ridden it on a 24", but it was not easy.

I think there's a better argument that the XC course was too difficult than that the downhill course was too easy.

Probably because everyone was riding 29"s because they realised walking 10m on the hardest section would be worth it for the time they would make up on the rest. And I know people still rode this section on 29"s so you can't say it was hard. The hard downhill would of been very very hard to ride on a 29" which is a good thing. Generally 29"s are considered XC unicycles whereas 24" are DH.

Originally Posted by napalm

hi everyone- good idea for a thread. To start off i will answer the initinal question before going on a little rant about the DH.

I was on a 24" with schlumpf hub and 150mm cranks. I only really got to use the hub in two sections on the track- across the bottom and a little at the top (but by the 2nd and 3rd laps the legs were struggling to push it so shorter cranks might have been more ideal). I know that Beau Hoover and Wilton were on 24s with 125mm cranks- i have a feeling that tony was running the same basic setup (although with lots of exotic materials that made it almost lighter than air!). I thought the XC race was fantastic. Lots of climbing, some fast and tech dh sections and of a good endurance length- it catered to the worlds best riders and that is what the world championships is all about. To those of you that want to whinge- there was an easier novice race held beforehand that you could have gone in.

Ok now just a warning because here comes a RANT!!!

I don't turn up to the world championships as a muni rider and expect the organisers to limit the tricks the elite freestylers are allowed to do so i can be involved in that element of the competition. As DH riders, we don't get to do tricks- we ride damn hard trails. I find it outrageous that the organisers FOR ABSOLUTELY NO LOGICAL REASON chose to cater to the lowest common denominator for the DH and change what was a great track that all people that thought they were a contender to something that was easier than the XC course. The compromise that was made after our protest showed a complete lack of understanding from the organisers to our grievence. The top 15 riders that rode the lame DH (many of whom did not even decide to do the unofficial elite DH aspect) may not have been the best riders at the real DH course. This is reflected in the choices of wheelsize by the riders for the various DH events. I did not make the top 15 (i think i came in at 16th after some pretty elaborate bails in high gear) and as of such was not allowed to have my time for the real dh course recorded! WTF. I actually had a pretty good run in the real DH (as can be seen in the Max Schulze unicon video where i clear the hardest part of the track at decent speed). I know that my time is out there in a spread sheet somewhere but they chose not to publish it because i did not make some arbitrary cut off decided by organisers that think that downhill jsut means riding down a hill.

On top of this david W. kindly requested that the start line for the elite DH be taken to its original position at the start of the first technical section (not after 150m of easy 4wd track)- an offer that was blankly refused by connie- even though it was simply a matter of the 3 top marshalls moving their chairs down the course a little. This is what happens when you get people that, despite their best intentions, make decisions on matters they are not really learned about.

Ok. thats about it. I hope that the next unicon (which is supposed to have a focus on Muni!) can build from what was otherwise a really great set of courses at NZ. All i want to suggest is to spread out the events (not just the Muni ones but the Muni and Marathon as well- because of the rider overlap) and to maybe suggest an enduro style event. Something around the 30-40km off road mark with lots of climbing and maybe even some night riding?.......drool.

Mark

+1!

[tholub]

Originally Posted by Rowan

The CON side of the convention was covered with the ride at Makara peak. It was a MUni ride that was not competitive so people who registered as non-competitor (or CON) could take part.

I went on the Makara Peak ride (and I was one of two riders, Beau Hoover being the other, to make the climb all the way to the top). But the Makara Peak ride wasn't on the same day as the XC race. In fact, there were no events other than the MUni events on the day of the XC race, so if you were still in Wellington, the only opportunity you had to participate was to do the MUni events.

As for "world championships", the basketball tournament was the world championships, too, and we played against teams who clearly had never played basketball before. The freestyle competitions are the world championships, and there are also "age group" competitions which allow riders below expert level to participate. Similarly with track. You have to handle both the top riders and the rest of the riders.

In both the marathon and the XC a lot of riders who considered themselves strong had to walk quite often- the photos are full of walkers!

I think the marathon course was difficult but acceptable; it became a bit ridiculous because of the wind. For the record, I walked none of it.

[SkierAlex]

Originally Posted by tholub

I went on the Makara Peak ride (and I was one of two riders, Beau Hoover being the other, to make the climb all the way to the top). But the Makara Peak ride wasn't on the same day as the XC race. In fact, there were no events other than the MUni events on the day of the XC race, so if you were still in Wellington, the only opportunity you had to participate was to do the MUni events.

As for "world championships", the basketball tournament was the world championships, too, and we played against teams who clearly had never played basketball before. The freestyle competitions are the world championships, and there are also "age group" competitions which allow riders below expert level to participate. Similarly with track. You have to handle both the top riders and the rest of the riders.



I think the marathon course was difficult but acceptable; it became a bit ridiculous because of the wind. For the record, I walked none of it.

And what about street? Does a 5 and 7 set cater for all riders? However I think unicon overall needs a greater focus on the serious competitors. For example in high jump and long jump the top riders had to wait all day before the height/distance was up to their standard. Why not have a serious competition starting at 80cm for example for highjump for expert male. Then have another bar which is for people competing for fun.

[tholub]

Originally Posted by GizmoDuck

The same can be said of MTB racing.

No, I don't think you could run entire MTB courses faster than you can MTB them.

[tholub]

Originally Posted by SkierAlex

And what about street? Does a 5 and 7 set cater for all riders? However I think unicon overall needs a greater focus on the serious competitors. For example in high jump and long jump the top riders had to wait all day before the height/distance was up to their standard. Why not have a serious competition starting at 80cm for example for highjump for expert male. Then have another bar which is for people competing for fun.

It makes some sense to have separate expert and "participant" competitions, where appropriate and possible. But it increases the complication of the logistics, though, and the number of volunteers required.

[GizmoDuck]

Originally Posted by tholub

No, I don't think you could run entire MTB courses faster than you can MTB them.

Not really. There are World Championship MTB courses where the Average speed is about 12-14km/hr, where runners can get pretty close. The are hillclimb events where runners beat MTBkers easily. I come from a MTB racing background, and we get on/off the bikes all the time.

Anybody can make a MTB course so difficult that a runner could win it. In fact, I'll bet you a years income that I can design a MTB course that a runner would win, particularly if the MTBkers were enamoured with the no-running rule.

The onus is on the organiser to make something that is rideable for the most part, with various harder sections to make it interesting and allow more technical riders to gain an advantage. That makes it less likely a MTB race would be won by a Road Cyclist. Whether they choose to run or ride a tech section is up to them...usually it's faster if they can ride it. The UNICON XV XC course proved that point.

Unicycles are a lot faster than just a few years ago, and are faster than running. Marathon running record is just over 2hrs, and just under 1 1/2hrs for a unicycle.

I regularly race Unicycles in MTB events and come in the top half of the field. If I stuck to the IUF running rule, I'd come near the bottom. Often it's because both 'bi'cyclists and 'uni'cyclists have to get off and run a section.

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by Ken

Do we get to dress up as clowns if it's anything less?

Of course- dress up whether its less than, more than, or equal to your expectations!

Originally Posted by tholub

I went on the Makara Peak ride (and I was one of two riders, Beau Hoover being the other, to make the climb all the way to the top). But the Makara Peak ride wasn't on the same day as the XC race. In fact, there were no events other than the MUni events on the day of the XC race, so if you were still in Wellington, the only opportunity you had to participate was to do the MUni events.

Your facts are wrong. In fact, the other events were: Juggling, Speed trials, and Night rider. I did the juggling workshop- it was open to all people- competitor or non competitor. The CON side of Unicon is not just competition- the cross country was a competition and that rules out non competitors from taking part. Doing the races was not the only way to participate either- just being at Mt Vic and riding with other people would have been another way.

I would have liked to take part in the Makara peak ride, as it is more like the type of MUni riding I would have liked to do at Unicon- with a big gang of unicyclists all riding offroad together without rules or time pressure. Unfortunately it clashed with the track racing day which I enjoyed experiencing.

I think running with unicycles is not really in the spirit of a timed MUni event. The rules of not walking for more than 10m, and not running should have been enforced!

[dangerdog]

thanks johnfoss for your great overview of the muni tracks.
http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=30


john

[tholub]

Originally Posted by GizmoDuck

Unicycles are a lot faster than just a few years ago, and are faster than running. Marathon running record is just over 2hrs, and just under 1 1/2hrs for a unicycle.

Obviously the marathon, on roads, is faster on a unicycle. The UNICON XC course was not faster on a unicycle. The fastest lap turned in by anyone was Martin's first lap, just under 16 minutes for 3km. That's quite impressive given the course, but any decent runner should be able to beat 15 minutes for 3km.

[SkierAlex]

Originally Posted by tholub

Obviously the marathon, on roads, is faster on a unicycle. The UNICON XC course was not faster on a unicycle. The fastest lap turned in by anyone was Martin's first lap, just under 16 minutes for 3km. That's quite impressive given the course, but any decent runner should be able to beat 15 minutes for 3km.

That's why running is against the rules.