Second Amendment and the right to keep and bear arms

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by feel the light

On remote farms, calling cops for help is not an option. Ma and the kids is there alone.

Ma wasn't home.

[nick]

Originally Posted by maestro8

This isn't the point that Harper is making, and you know this. Think about the downsides of bringing a fire extinguisher to a gunfight...

My understanding of Harper's post was that guns are useful in an emergency situation, and even if they are needed only rarely, it is still a good idea to have them around. Just like the other items he listed. I agree that a gun may be useful in an emergency situation, but I think that unlike many other emergency items, guns have a pretty huge drawback in that they are easily misused.

I'm sorry if I missed the point.

[wobbling bear]

Originally Posted by Gilby

The intent of the 2nd amendment is to allow the people to resist tyranny and, as per the Declaration of Independence, overthrow the government when it becomes destructive of the inalienable rights of each human, that being of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

that was the opinion of Timothy Mc Veigh ....
normally the way to overthrow a government is through vote.
(ahem .... for sure if you are in Syria this is much more subject to controversy ... so long for universal principles ) So the question can boil down to : "is my country much like Britain or like Syria?" ....

[Gilby]

Originally Posted by wobbling bear

that was the opinion of Timothy Mc Veigh ....
normally the way to overthrow a government is through vote.
(ahem .... for sure if you are in Syria this is much more subject to controversy ... so long for universal principles ) So the question can boil down to : "is my country much like Britain or like Syria?" ....

Military coup d'état are the most common. You need critical mass, not a lone McVeigh. Voting rarely overthrows a government.

[wobbling bear]

Originally Posted by Gilby

Military coup d'état are the most common. You need critical mass, not a lone McVeigh. Voting rarely overthrows a government.

I've heard that before: in the sixties it was from Maoïsts and Trotskyïtes, then later from Salafists, I am eagerly waiting from some "green" offshoot (PETA style) ... some groups feel that they are the victims of some abstract entity named "government" which is illegitimate by their own standards... well here our governement was neatly trounced recently and there were (almost) no calls to the arms. (ok I can already hear the response that those new people are just the same ...I have heard it in the sixties ..... and so on ... and so on...)
"plus ça change plus c'est la même chose"

[Nurse Ben]

When was the last time your house caught fire? Do you have a fire extinguisher? Why? Are you trying to prove you're macho? When was the last time you were in a life threatening car accident? Do you have seat belts and air bags? Why? Sissy. When was the last time you severed your femoral artery? Does your first aid kit have a tourniquet? Isn't that kind of excessive?

My neighbors house caught fire last month, she tried in vain to put it out, in the process she almost died herself, then her boys had to be restrained because they wanted to run into the house to get things. It took eight hours to put out the fire, but it contd to smoke for another twelve hours.

Seatbelts and air bags are good to have, but they don't replace defensive drivingtechniques such as increased following distance, avoiding conflicts with other drivers, driving safely.

Harper, I see your point, but do you see mine? America/American's are unique in that they seem to "enjoy" the idea of anarchy. Maybe it's derived from the expanding frontier concept, but I think there is more to it than that. Many countries/cultures experienced frontier expansion, civill war/strife, but America is unique in their understanding of bearing arms as an unequivical right. To equate seat belts and fire extinuguishers to bearing arms, seriously, that's a stretch.

I understand people's fascination with guns, when I was younger I had a fascination with guns as well, target practice, hunting, military training, but then one day it dawned on me that guns were not all that. This was probably around the time that I started understanding the concept of free will and making healthy choices.

You don't have to use a lethal weapon in order to deter a threat, of course this doesn't prevent someone from choosing to use lethal weapons, but it's worth considering that possibility that "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

Though there are some who's life are so empty of excitement that they dream of the zombie apocolypse or the fall of civil society, I think if this were really to happen it would devastating because they would lose all those things that really matter such as their sense of security. Do you really think anarchy would be more secure? If so, then maybe you need to move somewhere that is less secure, that way you can test your mettle.

Straw man, stand up, tell it like it is: You want a gun for the same reason that you want a powerful automobile.

[harper]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

Straw man, stand up, tell it like it is: You want a gun for the same reason that you want a powerful automobile.

I have a unicycle and a bicycle that I commute with. I don't have a powerful automobile. I don't want one.

[maestro8]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

You don't have to use a lethal weapon in order to deter a threat

How would a really pointy stick deter a criminal with a gun?

(Hint: it won't)

[wobbling bear]

Originally Posted by maestro8

How would a really pointy stick deter a criminal with a gun?

In Australia it is called "bone pointing"! very efficient !!
(I love the "Space willies" book by Eric Frank Russel : a must read for non-violent people! Though I would not recommend the recipe I know it is efficient )

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by maestro8

Worst sequel in the series, by a landslide.

Wait a second. Are you sure you saw the 2nd installment, Die Harder? Suck-a-roonie! Large snowstorms are extremely rare in the Washington DC area. To rely on one for your crime to work is ridiculous. Also how many miles was McLane supposed to have run under all those runways? Lastly, one for Mythbusters: can you light a trail of jet fuel and have the flame catch up to a jet that's already in the air?

Originally Posted by maestro8

How would a really pointy stick deter a criminal with a gun?

I offer a different movie as example: Apocalypse Now. It wasn't exactly a deterrent, but the guy who got the spear all the way through his chest got pretty dead. His final words: "A spear". A spear is a pointy stick

If you had said "What about pointed sticks?" I would have offered a very different response: "Shaddap!" -- a Monty Python reference

[BillyTheMountain]

There's an Olympic sport where they shoot rifles from a moving horseback.

Can we replace the horse with a unicycle and add this event to NAUCC?

O just bring our guns to NAUCC and have a shoot out after Darren Bedford's late-night flaming puck unihockey in the parking lot?

[maestro8]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

Wait a second. Are you sure you saw the 2nd installment, Die Harder? Suck-a-roonie!

The stunts in that film were way more believable than the Michael Bay sized explosions from which McClane walked away from, and inifinitely more plausible than a JET-FIGHTER / SEMI TRUCK DUEL. Seriously, that last scene made me want to punch a baby.

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by maestro8

seriously, that last scene made me want to shoot a baby.

fify

[nick]

Originally Posted by maestro8

...JET-FIGHTER / SEMI TRUCK DUEL. Seriously, that last scene made me want to punch a baby.

Me too! What an awesome movie!

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by maestro8

...inifinitely more plausible than a JET-FIGHTER / SEMI TRUCK DUEL. Seriously, that last scene made me want to punch a baby.

You have a point there. But I take that most recent film less seriously than the others, but for no particularly good reason. I actually consider that scene less of a stretch of reality than the lighting of the fuel-fuse in that other movie.

But not by much.




You've got to stop thinking about punching babies.
Or not; this being a thread about personal freedoms...