To Brake or not To Brake, that is the question.

[gerblefranklin]

Well, I guess Joe and I have to be the suckers who get the honor of breaking up the pissing contest that this thread has become, but to return to reality...

If you don't like brakes, fine. If you think using brakes shows weakness, you are wrong, but fine, be that way. Unicycling is more fun when one ignores people like that anyways. While you whine about some moral or idealistic crap of how brakes corrupt the "purity" of unicycling or something, those of us with brakes are going to go have fun on a 50% grade. That's more fun than listening to you anyways.

Descent muscles have nothing to do with climbing. Now that the legitimacy of the above pissing contest is gone, go ride.

Edit: Regarding the assertion that there are no descents that cannot be ridden brakeless, lets have a look at your location to check the credentials of the writer. Let's see, Detroit? Hm? Not many hills out there, are there now? Ever been to Moab? How about Santa Barbara. Hell, come ride with me. I'm a decent muni rider. 6 Years at it. over three of them without a brake, working on the same trails, many of which are over 40% grades and longer than 100'. With a brake, suddenly I was not only riding those sections of trail well, but I could freeride down stuff that was more cliff than hill. Go find a 50% or steeper granite face longer than 50', and then repeat your assertion to me with a straight face.

[joemarshall]

Originally Posted by AscenXion

And just as a quick aside. I don't agree that there are any runs out there that are impossible brakeless. None.

Sure there are.

I've seen very steep loose runs, where with the brake, the rider could ride smoothly down them, so not slide out, whereas running no brakes, you slid out each time the wheel got to the dead spot, and sometimes couldn't keep control of the slide. I can think of a couple on the local trails here in Christchurch, and at least one back home in Nottingham.

Also sustained very steep runs sometimes are just too long to spin out all the way down. Even very good technical riders can't keep control on a really steep run without a brake.

Having said that though, I think 90% of riders don't ride anything that steep, I think Bevan who just posted probably does, cos he's a much better technical rider than me, but I've met really very few people who ride impossibly steep stuff.

Joe

[rob.northcott]

I've put a brake on my coker (a cheap secondhand calliper one, cost me £5 including the lever) just for one long steep hill on my way to work. I *can* ride down it without a brake (with 150s), but I find it pretty scary as a relative novice coker rider. It's probably a quarter of a mile varying between 1:6 and 1:5. The brake works well to keep a smooth steady descent speed (even with the appalling quality of the Qu-Ax steel rim).

I don't use a brake on my 26x3" muni (also with 150s) - I just don't feel I need it for the stuff I ride, but I'm not really into cliff diving muni. It's just something else to go wrong or get clogged with mud.

Rob

[kington99]

Originally Posted by rob.northcott

It's just something else to go wrong

This is true, of our group of four on snowdon at easter i was the only one left with a working brake by the bottom, alex's wheel is too warped to install his brake, matt snapped the handle off during the ride and loose's were having some kind of problem, and he bust the tube at chicksands. They're great when the work though.

[Jerrick]

I dont use brakes. I dont need or want to use brakes either.

I ride a coker a lot, usually all on steep ups, which lead to an equally steep down. I also do some Coker Muni. All of this has tons of steep sections, or just long sections of downhill, but I just have good stamina and can do all the back pedaling and slowing down with my legs without them getting sore or going to jello on me.

[rob.northcott]

Originally Posted by kington99

This is true, of our group of four on snowdon at easter i was the only one left with a working brake by the bottom

Did you actually *use* the brake on Snowdon? There's nothing on the Llanberis path that makes me wish I had a brake (on the 26 with 150s) - with shorter cranks it might be nice for the road bit at the bottom, but they'd probably be too short for the rocky stuff then.

I've seen clips of people like KH riding stuff that certainly justifies a brake (like landing big drops on steep slopes) - you can hear the brake squeeking like a trials bike. I imagine it would take considerable skill (i.e. much more than I've got ) to control a brake in that way; certainly not the wimp's way out in that case, but enabling riding of stuff that would otherwise be impossible. But for my muni riding I reckon I'm better off without a brake.

Rob

[GizmoDuck]

Originally Posted by joemarshall

Actually, on the Sinz uni tour, I had a brake on the Schlumpf, Tony M had a brake, Hans Fiby had a brake, James had a brake but didn't use it at all, after an accident with it early on, the other 5 or 6 were brakeless I think. The really fast riders like Roger and Ken can ride most stuff brakeless no problems. It's people like me and Hans, who are that little bit slower and less strong in the legs, and maybe a bit more afraid of really going fast, who need the brake for the downhills.


Joe

It's not about strength in the legs, it's about technique a lot of the time. I think brakes are overused by people on hills where they would be better off getting as relaxed as possible and letting the wheel roll under them. If you're too tense and put backpressure the whole way down, it tires your legs and you end up needing to put more backpressure on the pedals or use a brake.

There are definitely situations where a brake would make me go faster and in more control- usually steep loose stuff off road, or going down something really steep like Baldwin St. But 98% of what we rode on SINZ did not require a brake. The only time I wished I had one was that wet, steep, slippery descent down Haast Pass:
http://www.sinzuni.org/d9.html

I do like the simplicity of having no brakes/gears though.

[kington99]

Originally Posted by rob.northcott

Did you actually *use* the brake on Snowdon?

Yeah a reasonable amount, the steep section that descends to clogwyn's cottage, and the borken rock section immeadiately after it was really nice to have. I've never managed to ride it before but this time with the brake it was relatively easy going. I don't think it's a technical issue, I'm just not all that fit or strong and didn't want to wear my legs out for later. And yes it was nice on the road at the end, although it did very nearly cause a UPD when my hand slipped off the lever.

[redwelly]

For road 36" use with short cranks (114 or less) I definitely use a brake (basic BMX caliper type):

On most downhills I'll put it on gently to keep a smooth spin, and steeper hills are definitely a choice of brake or be broken! (Nothing gets the adrenalin going like relying on a brake cable for your life while going down a 25% hill on short cranks.)

Without using the brake on significant downhills I'm much slower, more wobbly and wasting energy - with it I'm faster, more in control and smoother. Not a hard call for me

It's also handy to steady it while not riding - I naturally lock the brake when standing holding a uni. Feels odd trying to push/hold when it's a uni without a brake.

Sam

[rob.northcott]

Originally Posted by redwelly

On most downhills I'll put it on gently to keep a smooth spin, and steeper hills are definitely a choice of brake or be broken!

That's interesting - I expected you to be one of the people who just let it go and spin fast down hills on the road. But you do use much shorter cranks than I do (150s on my coker). The thought of riding with anything shorter scares the pants off me at the moment

I reckon more experienced coker riders would probably ride much faster down "my" 1:5 hill than I do (with or without a brake); like Ken said, I tend to tense up when things get close to the limit of my ability/experience and that doesn't help. I ride that hill on my 26 much faster than I do on the coker, and without a brake - it's just that I'm very used to that unicycle and feel in control, so I stay relaxed. I definitely reckon it's more of a technique thing than a leg strength thing - I'd say I had pretty good leg strength, and with 150s I should be able to ride down that hill perfectly in control without a brake, but the brake is a nice thing to have when my technique/experience/guts run out.

Rob

[ntappin]

I love v brakes on munis because they let you have shorter cranks for downhill riding and as everyone knows, I love smaller cranks!

[Hazmat]

Originally Posted by ntappin

I love v brakes on munis because they let you have shorter cranks for downhill riding and as everyone knows, I love smaller cranks!

Which is one of the reasons why i have 110s on my coker.

[Chrashing]

I took the V brakes off my 36". I used them at first, but as my legs strengthened, I didn't need them. I don't do mountain riding, just small hills in the neighborhood.

If I were a strong muni rider, I would love to go down a steep loose slope, using the brake and sliding parts of the way, that looks skillful to me and like a lot fun.

[MuniAddict]

Originally Posted by AscenXion

I don't *need* the steroids, it just make me look cool.
I don't *need* the cocaine, it just makes me feel cool.

Wow AscenXion, I had no idea you were a addicted to drugs. Have you entered rehab yet?

Let's put this one to bed with this observation: Just because you might have brakes on your uni/minu/coker, doesn't mean you have any less leg strentgh than someone who doesn't have/use a brake.

[henkka]

Originally Posted by torkerdx

brakes are for riders with no muscle strength.

Yea, but if you're light rider (under 130 lbs) or you've short cranks and you ride steep hills often you need brake. I can't ride over 40-50 degrees steep hills with my MUni without brake. Not sure if I could ride that steep hills even with brake.