Internet filtering for my kids - recs needed

[bugman]

There are things on the internet that are just not something you see in everyday life. Graphic violence and graphic porn are two examples. These are things children don't need to have explaned to them while they are trying to do their homework. My 6 year old screws stuff up on her PC just using it for learning games, and an internet program with her school that I haven't done in 20 years of using computers. No telling what could happen by accident. Pop up windows, spyware, and who knows what else is lurking out there. I ran into the same problem as teachndad with the password protection. I had to get up everytime a new page loaded and put in a password. That get's old.

I was doing a simple image search on google and got a whole eye full of graphic images that I would not want to explain to a 6 year old. Sorry but filtering what a 6 year old or a 16 year old sees is appropriate, no matter what a 16 year old thinks. Things that I never would have seen in my entire childhood are available in 2 minutes on the internet. In some cases that can be great, in others it is an issue that each parent has to struggle with. When you have kids lets talk.

[maestro8]

Originally Posted by johnfoss

While his kids are minors he has the option of saying "Because I'm the Dad, that's why."

That's just what I was afraid of... such a response (with no explanation or debate) might make his children even more curious about the topic of discussion.

When I was a kid, I'd always go behind my pop's back when he used the "I'm the Dad" line with me... there had to be a reason why and I had to find out... and if Dad wouldn't discuss the issue with me how else could I discover why censorship might be a good idea?

Originally Posted by johnfoss

using filtering software is a way of keeping them under your wing

software != parenting I don't know how good filtering software is these days, but with as dynamic as the Internet can be, I don't see how some software is going to keep the child from ever seeing an "indecent" picture or reading obscene material.

Sure, it's relatively easy for kids to be in contact with predators on the Internet, but it's much more difficult for them to be in contact in real life if the parent keeps track of the child's social activities and friends. No piece of software is going to keep the child safe from the outside world.

Originally Posted by bugman

Things that I never would have seen in my entire childhood are available in 2 minutes on the internet.

Most times you have to actively seek this stuff out. Sometimes it comes in randomly when you're searching for something remotely-related, but most times one has to actively seek this stuff...

...and nothing raises a child's curiosity like being told not to do something (same argument as above). Would you rather they look at this stuff alone, without your knowledge, or would you rather sit down with them and explain a little bit about what's going on? If a child comes across an image their parents tell them is "forbidden" do you think they'll choose to have a dialog about their experience? I don't think so...

In summary, I feel the only thing that is accomplished with censorship is closing... closing minds, closing doors, closing off lines of communication between parent and child. Yes, it's difficult having to explain some things to a child, but isn't that the price you pay for being a parent?

[monkeyman]

Being 16 (17 in two days, ), I may not have any valid say in this, but I agree with Jason. I don't know how well all of you old folks remember being a teenager, and it might not even matter, because (as bugman said, I think), there are so many more "bad" opportunities out there then there were.

Personally, I look at parenting as preparing your child to both function in, and deal with the world you will be releasing them into. I don't think sheltering accomplishes that at all. Lines of communication are fairly open between my parents and me. I'll use alcohol as an example...my dad's side of the family is almost all Italian...understandably, there is often wine at dinner. Starting when I was about four, I was allowed to have small (very small) sips at dinner, and it's progressed to me being allowed to have actual glasses of wine now. Because of this openness about the subject, I have never, and I probably never will be tempted to go get wasted for the sake of "trying it out". I know what alcohol is, and I'm familiar enough with it* for it not to be something special/rebellious.

This specific method doesn't apply to most other things. For instance, you wouldn't slowly desensitize your kid to porn, or cocaine. But I think that, with proper guidance, you can make the "bad" things become more of just plain "bad", as opposed to "that secret taboo thing no one will talk to me about".

Granted, your kid could be different, and accept "Because I said so" as a perfectly valid reason, and, if that's the case, that's fine. But if the kid is naturally curious, then the "Because I said so" line does much more harm than good. All it would do is increase curiosity, and decrease the child's trust in the parent.

That's my stance on the matter. However, I'm not a dad, so like I said, my opinion doesn't count for all that much.


*I've never been drunk, this just means that I've been around it for all of my life.

[spazdude222]

Originally Posted by yoopers

Mikael,

It's more than just trying to shelter kids from seeing and experiencing at home what they are exposed to during the course of any particular day at school and in public because they are going to see and hear it anyway. Mary and I want our home to be a shelter and respite away from those kinds of things, someplace where the boys can relax, feel safe and know that they don't have to put up with the filth and trash that occur 'out there'. We want a chance to teach them moral and ethical values. Can't really do that if there are those distractions slapping us in the ears and eyes. None of the four of us like that sort of stuff anyway, why put up with it in our home?

I like the idea of internet filtering. As young minds are so impressionable, allowing worldly things into the home via the Internet would be just such a distraction. We also use it in much the same way and for the same reasons as we don't allow certain TV shows on in the house, don't permit the boys' friends' to use certain language in our home (the boys will actually be the first ones to say something to them), etc. It makes a difference in the happiness quality of our homelife. It's really nice.

Bruce

+ 70,000,000,000

[GeorgeWBush]

Oh immortal gods!
I agree with monkey on something!

Except you need to mention that john foss is a republican and has no true morals except what suits his own needs and not the needs of anyone else in the entire world!

John, I want to break your tire..

(YES I SAID IT, THEN NO MORE WHEEL WALKING FOR YOU MR.!!!)

[yoopers]

Originally Posted by dudewithasock

I'm not sure I understand the above-quoted section. What do you mean by 'worldly things'?

Whoops. Sorry Mr. aSock. Slip of the vernacular tongue. I didn't mean to use the term in a public forum.

Originally Posted by maestro8

Bruce, I don't want to pick on you, I love you man, but there are some things I find hard to understand...

Thanks. I appreciate your maturity here.

Originally Posted by maestro8

How far do you go to create your "shelter"? Do you rip particular pages out of newspapers and magazines before you allow them in the house? Do you read the lyrics to every CD your boys bring home?

Many times, yes. I've been known to make newspaper inserts disappear or change the channel on the TV when certain commercials come on. And I do it for many reasons, mostly out of repect for my family. Thing is, the boys are on the same page as Mary and me. I guess you can call them imprinted or impressioned. But isn't that what happens in every family where children are raised? The parents impress upon the children characteristics of the parents values and lifestyle whether those characteristic be good or bad. The definition of good and bad is another whole subject of discussion.

Originally Posted by maestro8

What if one of your boys _is_ exposed to some filth and trash that they want to discuss? Would your "shelter" inhibit your boys from discussing such subjects?

The boys are exposed to filth and trash and do want to talk. And it goes both ways. Mary and I often approach the boys with stuff we've experienced to get their advice on how to handle the situation. It's been a long time since we were teenagers. As a family, we talk openly and often. It's a real pleasure. Besides, how else can we develop our thoughts on how we want to react as a family to what we see and hear?

Originally Posted by maestro8

Do you give your children a rationale for each item you censor? I am curious... what do you say? Is there even a debate?

We do give the boys rationale for items we decided to put "outside the gate". It's not without discussion and often compromise though. But we TRY to scrub everything through our faith.

Originally Posted by maestro8

I understand your motives are all for good... but remember you're imprinting your own interpretation of the "outside world" on your children. Are you opening their minds or closing them?

As I mentioned, it's a two way street in our family. I like to think that we are all building each others minds in order to better handle ourselves in the world.

[GeorgeWBush]

Why can't their be more republican families to eventually use their "Sheltering" (Or what i would call, nurturing to be a replica of yourself) to destroy the world.

Let a kid grow up on their own and decide whether to be a democrat/republican. Or what to eat. Or to ride a unicycle or a skateboard. Or do Dress gothic/emo/"Normally as you would put".

Let people decide for themselves. You obviously are afraid that if you don't raise this kid to have no outside influence from both sides of the world, that he/she might not be like you!

GASP, hell no!! that won't happen right?

Not while John Foss and others are alive.

[yoopers]

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

Why can't their be more republican families to eventually use their "Sheltering" (Or what i would call, nurturing to be a replica of yourself) to destroy the world.

Let a kid grow up on their own and decide whether to be a democrat/republican. Or what to eat. Or to ride a unicycle or a skateboard. Or do Dress gothic/emo/"Normally as you would put".

Let people decide for themselves. You obviously are afraid that if you don't raise this kid to have no outside influence from both sides of the world, that he/she might not be like you!

GASP, hell no!! that won't happen right?

Not while John Foss and others are alive.

Once again, case in point.

[GeorgeWBush]

I don't really know if your basing something off of me or not, but i'll tell you one thing i do know. I have more respect for people and life than your children ever will. I don't have respect for people however that raise their children to be a certain way. In most cases i've seen this turn out poorly.

It starts out that their children are so sheltered and blocked that when they do experience something that your hiding from them, they get a hunger for it.
A lot of times kids like this end up drinking at a young age and getting into a lot of trouble. These are often times the smart kids. Their parents just happened to shelter them from the truth too long and they end up doing it because they get mad at their parents for some kind of fight.

When i turn out right. Don't be pissed, forgive your kid. It will be your fault.

[bugman]

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

I don't really know if your basing something off of me or not, but i'll tell you one thing i do know. I have more respect for people and life than your children ever will. I don't have respect for people however that raise their children to be a certain way. In most cases i've seen this turn out poorly.

It starts out that their children are so sheltered and blocked that when they do experience something that your hiding from them, they get a hunger for it.
A lot of times kids like this end up drinking at a young age and getting into a lot of trouble. These are often times the smart kids. Their parents just happened to shelter them from the truth too long and they end up doing it because they get mad at their parents for some kind of fight.

When i turn out right. Don't be pissed, forgive your kid. It will be your fault.

You sound as if you have limited life experience. You think if someone is an active parent they are causing harm, while on the other hand letting children see and do whatever they want is an absolute moral imperative. Children will make things mean whatever they want. You ask them to put away their clothes, and you are controlling them. You tell them to be home at a certain hour, you are controlling them. You tell them to make healthy eating choices and not just eat candy and you are mean and never let them do anything. Setting boundaries isn't just about parent/child relationships, it is about life. Anyone who lives outside their parents home probably knows that. Unfortunately, too many 30 year olds still live at home, and don't have a clue.

If you don't think there are boundries, stand at the end of the driveway naked someday, or show up whenever you want to work, and dress however you think is not appropriate, stand in the middle ofthe mall and use profanity at the top of your voice, don't do your homework, don't take the next exam, don't make them complete anything they have started...

[yoopers]

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

I don't really know if your basing something off of me or not

You catch on well...

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

but i'll tell you one thing i do know. I have more respect for people and life than your children ever will.

Interesting how you can matter-of-factly state that without knowing or perhaps never even having met my children. That's a pretty tall claim. But I respect your opinion.

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

I don't have respect for people however that raise their children to be a certain way.

Hmmm. I've raised my boys to have respect for all things. Looks like you've got some growing to do to attain the level of respect that Mary and I have managed to instill in Ben and Brad.

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

It starts out that their children are so sheltered and blocked that when they do experience something that your hiding from them, they get a hunger for it.
A lot of times kids like this end up drinking at a young age and getting into a lot of trouble. These are often times the smart kids. Their parents just happened to shelter them from the truth too long and they end up doing it because they get mad at their parents for some kind of fight.

You and I travel down different roads. My parents raised me in much the same manner as I'm raising my boys. For some strange reason, I've managed not to drink (I've never taken a drink in my life) or do drugs or get involved with other 'worldly' (sorry Mr. withaSock ) things. My grandparents raised my father in much the same manner as he raised me. My father espouses the same respect and values as he instilled in me. And my grandfather's father before him, and his father before him... Call it legacy, call it cycle, call it passing the buck, I don't really care. The fact is that raising children with love and respect of life and others is a good thing. And creating an environment where things of the world remain outside the gate in order to provide a respite from the world is a great thing. As far as I'm concerned, it can't be disputed.

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

When i turn out right...

I'll be waiting.

[GeorgeWBush]

You would be so lucky to have children that stated their opinions and had a set of beliefs that they truley thought to be right. You would also be lucky to have raised democratic kids!

I am not saying don't control what your kids do and etc.

I am saying don't go so far as not to trust them on the internet. Just pay attention to them thats all.

You don't need crap to monitor and block your kids access to the world through the internet unless you don't trust them.

Did you raise untrustworthy children?

And no you don't get pop-ups if you have a firewall and an anti-virus software installed unless you yourself watch and download porn.

No more BS excuses.

[yoopers]

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

You would be so lucky to have children that stated their opinions and had a set of beliefs that they truley thought to be right.

Two things: Luck had nothing to do with it and my boys have a set of beliefs that they truly think are right. Just ask them.

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

You would also be lucky to have raised democratic kids!

Sorry, not too political. Can't comment.

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

I am not saying don't control what your kids do and etc.

I am saying don't go so far as not to trust them on the internet. Just pay attention to them thats all.

You don't need crap to monitor and block your kids access to the world through the internet unless you don't trust them.

Did you raise untrustworthy children?

Actually, we've done away with Internet filtering software. It gets in the way of some of the computer's programming. Instead, both Ben and Brad have asked me to help them be accountable in their computer usage. In return, I've asked the same of them. If you were to ask Ben about it, he would tell you that I regularly ask him to tell me about his computer usage and to show me what he's been working on. He appreciates me asking because he knows it helps him with his integrity.

[GeorgeWBush]

Nothing wrong with that...

I just hope you didn't make him a ................

.... ... ... .. .. ........ .. . . . CHRISTIAN!!! AHHHHHH

CATHOLIC EWWW AHHHH

If you hadn't explained religion to your children, would they have became the same as you? No, because you raise them to your beliefs. They don't have their own. You molded them to be american idiots.

[yoopers]

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

Nothing wrong with that...

I just hope you didn't make him a ................

.... ... ... .. .. ........ .. . . . CHRISTIAN!!! AHHHHHH

CATHOLIC EWWW AHHHH

If you hadn't explained religion to your children, would they have became the same as you? No, because you raise them to your beliefs. They don't have their own. You molded them to be american idiots.

Ben decided that Ben should be a Christian, not me. Same thing for Brad. How can they have my beliefs? Ben and Brad are individuals, they have their own beliefs. Yes, I taught them about my faith, but they made their own decision whether or not to adopt the same set of beliefs.