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Old 2008-05-30, 02:43 AM   #61
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yeah, pizza is great(can always use some pepperoni though...). But the deal is, all the vegetarian stuff I like is insanely unhealthy, and my parents are kinda health freaks. Besides, I work at Quiznos, and I can only eat so many veggie sandwiches...
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Old 2008-05-30, 02:56 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by peleschramm
yeah, pizza is great(can always use some pepperoni though...). But the deal is, all the vegetarian stuff I like is insanely unhealthy, and my parents are kinda health freaks. Besides, I work at Quiznos, and I can only eat so many veggie sandwiches...
aww, can't you pull the unicycling will keep me from being fat thing on them?
Yesterday for meal I had an egg covered with cheese, toritilla chips and pie.
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Old 2008-05-30, 03:39 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Goats_On_Unicycles
I'm eating rhubarb pie right now.
Ahh the pie of rhubarb. I've heard only good things.

I usually eat pasta with yes, ridiculous amounts of cheese. Oh yes and hummus. I know not all hummus is good. Most of it is crap actually... But theres this one awesome brand that I buy like once every two days with a 6 pack of cheese buns. (sometimes 12, when I'm feeling naughty. hoho).
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Old 2008-05-30, 03:54 AM   #64
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The only problem is, I hate most fruits and veggies
Me too. Well, fruit is okay, although I don't like melons. But I don't like vegetables. Have you tried making vegetable juice? Here's what I do, although I make it a bit differently now. I was surprised to find that it didn't taste bad. By juicing, I can get (most of) the goodness of a big pile of vegetables that I wouldn't otherwise be able to eat.

Also, soup is a great place to put vegetables. I make chicken vegetable rice soup all the time and really load it with vegetables.

Hey, we are two vegetable-haters posting in a vegetarian thread!
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Old 2008-05-30, 04:18 AM   #65
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I wish I could have adopted that philosophy when we first moved into our house over 18 years ago. Now I never want to move because I'm afraid to see what has accumulated in and populated the crawlspace under the house. If my garage is any indication, I'm in big trouble.
My parents are in that same boat. Unfortunately for them, it looks like they are going to HAVE to move in a year or two. My mom has a "plan of attack" for clearing out the basement, attic, and garage...much of which involves my manual labor! 'sall good though, since I know my mom went through a lot of 'labor' for me

My parents, and dad especially are pack-rats. I think thats why I've sort of adopted the idea of living more simply. I got tired of living with so much STUFF that just seemed to clutter up my living space as well as my mind.

On topic:
I just watched an episode of How It's Made, and they showed milk production. On a state-of-the-art dairy farm, cows roam freely from indoors to outdoors, their manure is removed automatically all throughout the day, and they choose when they want to be milked. There is also an automatic scratcher/brusher machine that the cows can walk over to whenever they wanna be scratched/brushed. The milking machine is designed in such a way so as to mimic an actual calf as much possible, and makes sure not to separate the cow from the herd, which would stress the cow out. The milk is produced this way out of concern for the animals, but also because happy, stress-free cows produce higher quality milk, and more of it. I have no moral or emotional objection to this kind of milk production at all.

Does anyone here have an objection to this kind of milk production? If so, what is it? Why?
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Old 2008-05-30, 07:02 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueakyOnion
Does anyone here have an objection to this kind of milk production? If so, what is it? Why?
That sounds "better" than the typical dairy farm. Did they talk about the cows food and chemical intake? Are hormones involved? I would imagine that the male calves are still sold to McDonalds and the like. How long do they let the cows live? Dairy farms typically do not let the cow live a full life as they will start to produce less milk then a young ready to go cow.
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Old 2008-05-30, 07:56 AM   #67
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"Then, I realized that most of the products I consume, be it food, clothes, music, toys, health products, etc., are made by companies that exploit workers. The fact of the matter is, I can't know what products I buy were created using exploitation, and thus to "play on the safe side," I would have to stop consuming them all, which is next to impossible.* I couldn't, in good conscience, pick and choose which industry I didn't want to buy exploited goods from. All or nothing."

All or nothing?! Wow I sure am glad this is the first time ive heard this. I accept that oppression and exploitation are the norm in our society. I do my very best to avoid companies that exploit their workers just as I do my best to avoid animal products. Although since we rely on the exploitation of animals no one could really be completely vegan, rubber has animal byproducts, mscalisi once said cement has a binding agent made from pig fat and the list goes on. Yet I know I'm not perfect but I cant just sit around and make excuses for myself, I figure I should at least try.

I just watched an episode of How It's Made, and they showed milk production. On a state-of-the-art dairy farm, cows roam freely from indoors to outdoors, their manure is removed automatically all throughout the day, and they choose when they want to be milked. There is also an automatic scratcher/brusher machine that the cows can walk over to whenever they wanna be scratched/brushed. The milking machine is designed in such a way so as to mimic an actual calf as much possible, and makes sure not to separate the cow from the herd, which would stress the cow out. The milk is produced this way out of concern for the animals, but also because happy, stress-free cows produce higher quality milk, and more of it. I have no moral or emotional objection to this kind of milk production at all.

Does anyone here have an objection to this kind of milk production? If so, what is it? Why?


Yes I have an objection to that.
The cows are still being exploited, they are still simply a commodity as well as a means to an end. THey are artificially inseminated, their children are sold to the veal industry, they produce milk for humans, then once they no longer can, they are disposed of through slaughter. They are reduced from a living breathing creature to a machine for capital ends. Yet just because it's nicer then others its not supposed to be bad?
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Old 2008-05-30, 03:09 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueakyOnion
Most fish are caught in nets. No hooks. Same with crab, for that matter. However, if I were to spend a week or two camping, I would have no qualms with catching a few fish for dinner. I could even make it quick for them, and use dynamite.
The dynamite only shocks them, doesn't kill them out right. You're still suffocating those poor fish to death. Where is the outrage for humane slaughter of the fish?

And don't get me started on bivalves. Cooked alive for goodness sake!

Crabs can stand some time out of water, and when we rip the shell off and break the body in half to clean them they are killed instantly (at least for the Dungeness we catch here locally).
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Old 2008-05-30, 03:16 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goats_On_Unicycles
aww, can't you pull the unicycling will keep me from being fat thing on them?
Yesterday for meal I had an egg covered with cheese, toritilla chips and pie.
Haha my parents don't care about me being fat. It's about HEALTH. Like try not to have saturated fat and stuff like that, not looks. They are afraid I'll die of a heart-attack at an early age or something.



I think maybe I'll give vegetarianism a go, maybe just for a few days or something just to see how it is, see if I can live with it.
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Old 2008-05-30, 03:34 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uniextreme
All or nothing?! Wow I sure am glad this is the first time ive heard this. I accept that oppression and exploitation are the norm in our society. I do my very best to avoid companies that exploit their workers just as I do my best to avoid animal products. Although since we rely on the exploitation of animals no one could really be completely vegan, rubber has animal byproducts, mscalisi once said cement has a binding agent made from pig fat and the list goes on. Yet I know I'm not perfect but I cant just sit around and make excuses for myself, I figure I should at least try.
If you had bothered to read the rest of my post, you'd see that our reactions are quite similar. By all or nothing, I chose "all." You see, rather than pick and choose which industry I deem "the worst" (since I can't really know for sure which is worse) and just boycott a single industry, I try to follow a lifestyle of LESS OVERALL CONSUMPTION. I try to consume foods, goods, and services only in the amounts I need, without excess. Thus, I most definitely am "at least try"ing.

I wasn't making excuses, I was merely trying to point out that boycotting a single industry (such as the meat industry), to me, seems like putting on horse-blinders and only paying attention to one problem, while ignoring the rest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by uniextreme
Yes I have an objection to that.
The cows are still being exploited, they are still simply a commodity as well as a means to an end. THey are artificially inseminated, their children are sold to the veal industry, they produce milk for humans, then once they no longer can, they are disposed of through slaughter. They are reduced from a living breathing creature to a machine for capital ends. Yet just because it's nicer then others its not supposed to be bad?
Yes I have an objection to that.
The humans are still being exploited, their labor is still simply a commodity as well as a means to an end. THey are culturally pressured to reproduce, their children are sold to corporations for their labor, they produce goods for humans, then once they no longer can, they are disposed of through nursing homes. They are reduced from a living breathing creature to a machine for capital ends. Yet just because it's nicer then others its not supposed to be bad?

Sorry, but the treatment of much of humanity is not a far cry from the treatment of many livestock. In some places, the treatment of humans is worse. I'll get my panties in a bunch over human rights a lot quicker than animal rights any day.

Are nursing homes better than slaughter? Maybe the really expensive ones are, but not the many I've seen. I'd rather be slaughtered than put in a nursing home any day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentQ
Did they talk about the cows food and chemical intake?
The cows are fed no hormones, but a mix of grains and wheat, slightly enriched with vitamins and stuff. No chemicals, at least that they mentioned, aside from disinfecting their teats before milking.
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Old 2008-05-30, 03:44 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by UniBrier
Crabs can stand some time out of water, and when we rip the shell off and break the body in half to clean them they are killed instantly (at least for the Dungeness we catch here locally).
Steve,

You're bringing back some very fond memories for me of a time during my high school years catching Maryland Blue Crab on the shores of the Chesapeake. Man, those were some feasts!!!
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Old 2008-05-30, 05:33 PM   #72
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Ok guys. I have decided. As of now, I am giving Vegetarianism a real shot. I work tonight, so I'm going to have my first ever Veggie Sandwich for dinner!

I hope I'll last.
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Old 2008-05-30, 05:41 PM   #73
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Awesome. If you stay true come NAUCC I will buy you a meal.
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Old 2008-05-30, 05:42 PM   #74
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Awesome. If you stay true come NAUCC I will buy you a meal.
That's all the motivation I need!

haha, I hope to hold till then.
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Old 2008-05-30, 05:53 PM   #75
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Ok guys. I have decided. As of now, I am giving Vegetarianism a real shot. I work tonight, so I'm going to have my first ever Veggie Sandwich for dinner!

I hope I'll last.
Haha, good for you! But... you've worked at that sandwhich place so long and you've never had the veggie sandwhich!?
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