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Old 2016-08-17, 04:53 AM   #106
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By the way... here is the presentation the Koreans shown at the IUF meeting at Unicon 18: https://unicycling.org/files/UNICON19.pptx
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Old 2016-08-17, 07:14 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lutz View Post
Well said John. I think the biggest problem was the that we where only allowed to prepare everything on the evening before. It leadet to the problems with not perfect markings. But even if everybody found the track I think its to dangerous on a XC or DH race to let the riders race in tracks the can not check out completly before.
We have lots of technology right now, so one more option would be to publish gps track some days earlier, so that everybody can try it. We were doing it anyway using gps with a very unclear (and most probably not up to date) map we had online and in schedule book. And of course on the fatal crossroad we took another line on the practice. I guess most people lost were the ones that were there to see the track and tried going along the "map" as looking for the track in the days before we didn't expect such easy road to be our choice

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Originally Posted by tholub View Post
Keep it simple
(...)
Keep it rideable
I strongly agree. If you have more local trails that you want to share, publish them as recommended muni rides in the area (we got a bunch of such trails from Aritz for muni workshop). It would greatly help the riders to organize themselves to go out and ride.

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Originally Posted by tholub View Post
Less is more: The disparity in strength and skill within our field is enormous. Even at the top levels there tend to be big gaps between riders. The Unicon 18 results are skewed by the course issues, but looking at the Unicon 17 results, Martin beat Florian by over 30 seconds, and third place (Maksym) was two minutes further back. The top 10 riders were spread out over 9 minutes. A shorter race, something like 30-35 minutes instead of 45-50 minutes for the top riders, would have been just as good for sorting out the best.
Maybe, but first, we need to change definition of XC race in IUF rules as they state at least 10km, and second, for most people XC is not about muni sprint, but also about endurance, so many would like to see longer XC races. Of course 10km might be still within 35 minutes for the top riders if we keep it fairly easy, but that's another thing. I would say loop races are good and we could say Beginners should have easier track, but then Advanced riders do e.g. 2 loops while Expert riders do 4 loops.
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Old 2016-08-17, 09:25 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vookash View Post
We have lots of technology right now, so one more option would be to publish gps track some days earlier, so that everybody can try it. We were doing it anyway using gps with a very unclear (and most probably not up to date) map we had online and in schedule book. And of course on the fatal crossroad we took another line on the practice. I guess most people lost were the ones that were there to see the track and tried going along the "map" as looking for the track in the days before we didn't expect such easy road to be our choice
Yes gps or a normal hiking Map would help a lot. I dont know exaktly why it wasnt possible but I think it has also to do with the "half legal" status of the race. Even I was in charge of the marking I only had the same map as everybody.

But with all the great input I am quite sure that something like this will not happen again. I look forward to the next unicons with tracks which are maybe a little less beautyfull but more easy to organise.
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Old 2016-08-17, 01:31 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tholub View Post
My advice to organizers would be:

Keep it simple

Keep it rideable

Less is more:
YES
YES
NO! better would be 15-20 min 3-4-5 rounds may be with some water station at Start / Finish.
this would also better for spectators.

the marking of the track should be mostly continous on the ground...minimum 30m before/after crossings etc.

@ Lutz
i understand this as a discussion to learn for future events.
it should be no prosecution for the past
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Old 2016-08-17, 09:50 PM   #110
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I come to Unicons to participate in competitions, to meet a lot of nice people and to have fun. I am really not the fastest unicyclist at all, on the contrary… but I would like to comment a few things about cross country. I know that this Unicon's beginner-cross-country by mistake ended up in some steep tracks (impossible to ride!), but the beginner-cross-country in Canada was also a very technical route, which I walked along on the practice day and decided not to ride at the racing day.

Tholub mentioned (post no. 105) that the track should be rideable (I agree), but also that "less is more" (I'm not so sure about this). Instead I think that we should not compete at the same kind of track like a "beginners ride two laps, advanced riders ride four laps"-system. Too easy for some, too difficult for others.

I think that a good way to differentiate between the beginner and the advanced courses should be the surface. For beginners I would like it to be rather level on gravel tracks or the like (80-90 pct.) with only few places with rocks, roots and stones (10-20 pct.), and not steep. Instead I would like to ride maybe 15-18 km and not only 4 km. - For advanced riders the surface could be 80 pct. uneven, technical, steep and with rocks and roots and 20 pct. more easy. How long the total distance should be here, I don't know. You guys tell me!

My guess is that this kind of differentiation could make it challenging for both skilled and not so skilled riders. - I simply don’t find it fun to walk up and down the hillsides pushing my unicycle along on stony ground. I travel a long way to participate in Unicons and would like to ride, not walk.


But now to something completely different: A positive experience, a really great race, and I think the most funny event at the whole Unicon 18 was the cyclocross. Here it was possible to ride the required least 50 pct., and it was fun with the obstacles , where everybody had to slow down! A totally nice competition, and very spectator friendly too. More of that kind, please!

Best regards,
Sanne

(And the paella at the last day was good!)
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Old 2016-08-18, 03:17 AM   #111
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As a disclaimer: This was my first unicon and I attended as a non-competitor expecting more social rides (next time unless something changes I would register as a competitor so that I can participate in more rides).

One idea that I had after reading this thread is that Unicon could eliminate the beginner/intermediate races and instead focus that effort on a more convention/social aspect. If all of the competitions were expert focused they would be shorter, require less volunteers, and more spectator friendly. This would leave more time for non competitive events in the form of organized muni rides, touring rides, pickup games etc. (Obviously if there is not enough gym space for hockey, basketball, and freestyle this will not really help).

On a less provocative note, if there is not a social director, there should be. Also I am happy to help organize social rides/events in 2018.
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Old 2016-08-18, 03:55 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by JoshuaEhrlich View Post
On a less provocative note, if there is not a social director, there should be.
+1

Would it be hard to be the social director if you're not familiar with the area? I wonder how easy/hard that would be in Seoul. What's it like getting around if you don't read or speak the language? I've been to several Asian countries but not Korea.
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Old 2016-08-18, 03:57 AM   #113
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Congrats Sanne ... you got third place!
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Old 2016-08-18, 05:01 AM   #114
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Congrats Sanne ... you got third place!
Yes, thanks! (In the IUF-slalom in my age group.)

Best regards,
Sanne
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Old 2016-08-19, 07:31 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanne.Kj View Post
For beginners I would like it to be rather level on gravel tracks or the like (80-90 pct.) with only few places with rocks, roots and stones (10-20 pct.), and not steep. Instead I would like to ride maybe 15-18 km and not only 4 km.
Lengthening the course puts more focus on fitness and endurance. You will have Japanese kids on Track unicycles dominating if the course is too easy.

But anyway, I don't agree with the idea of a "Beginners" course for Muni anymore. This was good in early years, to introduce the sport to new people/countries. But now I think the idea is pretty well out there. I think Unicon competition, outside of the elite riders, should be focused more on advanced and above. This allows a course that's challenging, to serve as a preliminary round to choose the elites, and is accessible to enthusiast riders that want to challenge themselves.

I agree with Tom's assessment that the course should be more rideable (if possible) and try not to have too much walking. However, there will often be limitations on the trails we are able to obtain for big races. Like Ulia Mountain, it had nice trails, but other aspects (namely the high number of hikers) were obstacles.

For people who consider themselves beginner Muni riders, I recommend organized (when possible) group rides. Not sure you can organize a group ride for 200 people, but there definitely should be some effort to organize fun rides at Unicon. I would also love to help with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanne.Kj
But now to something completely different: A positive experience, a really great race, and I think the most funny event at the whole Unicon 18 was the cyclocross.
Yes! But not so much slowing down for the obstacles. I don't mind some crowding, but there also has to be a chance to pass most of the time. That event was really, really fun and I like the idea that we weren't supposed to take it too seriously. After all, we're riding unicycles. And we have plenty of other serious events to choose from.
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And the paella at the last day was good!
Indeed! Almost the best paella we had our whole time in Spain! And I'm pretty sure it was also the largest.
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Originally Posted by JoshuaEhrlich View Post
One idea that I had after reading this thread is that Unicon could eliminate the beginner/intermediate races and instead focus that effort on a more convention/social aspect.
Beginner yes, intermediate not so much. What's needed is a balance between participation and attendance. People like to enter, so I fear Unicon attendance would just be tiny if competition weren't open to at least the "upper half" of riders. But there are ways to address that and still focus the main energy on the elite competitions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaEhrlich
On a less provocative note, if there is not a social director, there should be. Also I am happy to help organize social rides/events in 2018.
And I will help! There usually isn't the equivalent of a social director, not because it isn't a good idea, but because the "required" events always seem to end up taking up all the time and energy of the organizers. Did we get to meet in San Sebastian (or maybe at a Robs Ride)? We should.
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Would it be hard to be the social director if you're not familiar with the area? I wonder how easy/hard that would be in Seoul.
Yes, local help would be required. But people from outside the area could handle a lot of the grunt work of putting things together, long as we have access to knowledge about what activities, trails, routes and riding spaces will be available. Then the social directors could figure out schedules, communicate what resources would be needed, etc. Having been the Track Referee for Unicons X and XII (Beijing and Tokyo), both of which were not perfect situations, I think being a social director (or at least a co- one), would be easier.
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