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Old 2017-06-05, 02:13 AM   #16
johnfoss
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I like the music track you chose. It says, take a good look around; this elevator will get you there eventually.

It looks like a nice, easy-to-control venue, with little or no costs associated with closing streets or police overtime. Unfortunately it lacks the public exposure of a city streets course, but we use what we can get.

I always have trouble with the group classification labels. Am I a novice or an Expert? I think I fall in with the vast majority of riders who are neither. I've been riding for almost 40 years, and coming to uni competitions since 1980, but I'm not fast. Once upon a time I was, but these days I'm more in the medium range. Which group should I ride with?
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Old 2017-06-05, 12:18 PM   #17
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The asphalt looks like it's in great condition. I like the use of roundabouts
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Old 2017-06-05, 05:23 PM   #18
johnfoss
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Yes, the roundabouts will be the best locations for spectating; where the action will probably be the most intense!
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Old 2017-06-07, 02:13 AM   #19
Vertigo
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It was hard to find a venue in this area especially since I live about 35 miles away. In the end having it near the Muni venue made sense. I don't know how many riders will do both but it's possible since Grand Ridge [Muni venue] is next to Central Park. In fact you'll be parking in Central Park for the Muni events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfoss View Post
I always have trouble with the group classification labels. Am I a novice or an Expert? I think I fall in with the vast majority of riders who are neither. I've been riding for almost 40 years, and coming to uni competitions since 1980, but I'm not fast. Once upon a time I was, but these days I'm more in the medium range. Which group should I ride with?
When I came up with those categories we only had 2 hours to close the road and I wasn't sure how fast we could get cars out of the way. I just found out that we might have an additional 1/2 hour or so. Maybe I'll add back an Unlimited intermediate heat. I'm also allowing 5 minutes between heats.

I'm not sure how fast the "experts" will be. I'd like to keep them from mowing down the slower riders. It's an out/back course.

BTW, I rode one lap at the leisurely pace of 2min and 50sec on my 28" road unicycle. The traffic circle at the end of the video is steep (that's why you see my waving hand). I'm still not sure if I should include it for the kids riding 20" wheels. Of course, they're probably much better riders than me.

The song in the video is called "Cool Ride" (free YouTube music).

Last edited by Vertigo; 2017-06-07 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 2017-06-07, 05:35 AM   #20
johnfoss
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Originally Posted by Vertigo View Post
I don't know how many riders will do both but it's possible since Grand Ridge [Muni venue] is next to Central Park. In fact you'll be parking in Central Park for the Muni events.
I see that on Google Maps, and also Duthie Hill Mountain Bike Park, which looks really interesting.

Are there any legal mountain bike trails in the Snoqualmie Pass area? In 1999 and 2002 we raced at the Snoqualmie Summit park, I think. Brett Bymaster and I figured out the 1999 course. It would be fun to go up there; maybe invite a group for a non-competitive ride at some point.

Quote:
Maybe I'll add back an Unlimited intermediate heat. I'm also allowing 5 minutes between heats.
Or if you only use two groups, maybe just label the lower one as "medium" or something. I can't think of a good word to describe "everybody but the experts".
Quote:
I'm not sure how fast the "experts" will be. I'd like to keep them from mowing down the slower riders.
Imagine the fastest riders you can think of, then increase that by 25%. It will be about that fast. Don't mix the Experts with beginner-type riders if possible, because there will be much lapping and it will be messy. Which brings us back to people figuring out which group to ride in. How about "Faster" and "Slower"? I still don't know where I fit these days, but might help some other people decide...

It's an out & back course, but if you think of it as a narrow loop it should work fine. Put some cones, or rain-away spray paint down the middle to indicate where riders should stay.
Quote:
The traffic circle at the end of the video is steep (that's why you see my waving hand). I'm still not sure if I should include it for the kids riding 20" wheels.
Leave it in. Don't worry, most of them probably won't even notice it.
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Old 2017-06-07, 03:03 PM   #21
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If you're talking about trails at the Snoqualmie Pass ski area - there haven't been any for many years. Stevens Pass has lift served trails now, and there are talks of other ski areas opening trails.

That said, there are plenty of great trails for riding - I'll host some unofficial muni rides for interested folks - we just need to work out details based on interest, skill level, and time.

Duthie is a fun place to ride - ambitious riders could ride there from Central Park on the muni preview day, less ambitious riders should just drive between the parks.

There are a few trails leaving from where the 10K starts, so there are options for non-racers to cheer on racers and ride muni, or if racers have extra energy...

Tiger is a popular spot to ride these days - a mix of downhill and xc, most unicyclists hike up, but fit riders can ride up.

I also have some good options for true mountain riding with views though those rides with driving do require a full day.
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Old 2017-06-12, 07:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertigo View Post
I made a video of the criterium course. Kind of boring but thought I'd put it out there in case any one was interested in seeing it.

It's an .4 mile out/back loop between three traffic circles. One of the traffic circles has a steep pitch which I personally find difficult but others don't seem to mind.

https://youtu.be/AFFDVha06So

We'll have five heats during a 2 hour time frame. The schedule is really tight! Unfortunately that's the only time we could get.

Here's the line up.

0-10yr 20" wheels - 15 minutes - 2 laps
Standard 24" Novice - 20 minutes - 4 laps
Standard 24" Expert - 20 minutes - 4 laps
Unlimited 26" - 36" Novice 20 minutes - 8 laps
Unlimited 26" - 36" Expert 20 minutes - 8 laps
I would not stress over how to split the riders into groups. Allowing for 2 heats of each of the Standard Class and Unlimited should have you covered. The 20" will likely be run with the Novice 24". That will save a bit of time on the schedule.

What will happen is that the riders will somewhat be grouped at registration, but final decisions will be made up until the race day. All riders of Standard and Unlimited will have a set time they all need to be there then the final determination for who races in what heat is usually handled by experienced data personnel. Don't stress over it. Many of the riders have past records for uni racing and that helps determine where they should be placed. You don't have that data, but the data people do and come through when needed to make for a safe race.

The speeds aren't a big concern until it gets to the Unlimited Experts. 20+ mph at times is a thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertigo View Post
It was hard to find a venue in this area especially since I live about 35 miles away. In the end having it near the Muni venue made sense. I don't know how many riders will do both but it's possible since Grand Ridge [Muni venue] is next to Central Park. In fact you'll be parking in Central Park for the Muni events.

When I came up with those categories we only had 2 hours to close the road and I wasn't sure how fast we could get cars out of the way. I just found out that we might have an additional 1/2 hour or so. Maybe I'll add back an Unlimited intermediate heat. I'm also allowing 5 minutes between heats.

I'm not sure how fast the "experts" will be. I'd like to keep them from mowing down the slower riders. It's an out/back course.

BTW, I rode one lap at the leisurely pace of 2min and 50sec on my 28" road unicycle. The traffic circle at the end of the video is steep (that's why you see my waving hand). I'm still not sure if I should include it for the kids riding 20" wheels. Of course, they're probably much better riders than me.

The song in the video is called "Cool Ride" (free YouTube music).
You've done a fantastic job at getting the course together!

Again, the concerns about speed really hold true for the Unlimited Experts. They also are typically skilled at avoiding collisions. The inexperienced riders are more of a liability. Typically those who are unknown quantities are placed in the novice group by the data personnel.

All of your thoughtful planning really shows! It's obvious you've made not only picking a good course a priority, but safety considerations are tantamount.

Again, well done!

Last edited by unigoat; 2017-06-12 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 2017-06-19, 01:42 PM   #23
DavidPanofsky
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Nice reply Unigoat. Don't forget to reach out to the NAUCC liaison at USA, Connie Cotter. She will reiterate much of what has been said, but it will be so helpful to work with her. A KJ has all her contact info. See you soon.
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Old 2017-06-23, 01:54 AM   #24
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Thanks so much Dave for the input. There's only a few weeks left!
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Old 2017-06-23, 02:46 AM   #25
Richardt
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Criterium Hill?

I understand that it is ultimately up to the host when it comes to finalizing courses but, in the past steep hills have been an issue in Criteriums. I have ridden the Crits in Minnesota, Wisconsin and, South Dakota on a 36". All flat except S.D. When Unlimited riders gain a lot of speed on the downhill and then must take a tight turn it can be dangerous. It is hard to tell by the video how steep the hill is. Just something to keep in mind.
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Old 2017-06-23, 03:32 AM   #26
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I understand that it is ultimately up to the host when it comes to finalizing courses but, in the past steep hills have been an issue in Criteriums. I have ridden the Crits in Minnesota, Wisconsin and, South Dakota on a 36". All flat except S.D. When Unlimited riders gain a lot of speed on the downhill and then must take a tight turn it can be dangerous. It is hard to tell by the video how steep the hill is. Just something to keep in mind.
Thanks Richard for the feedback. Most of the course is at a slight incline/decline except for the last traffic circle. I hesitate leaving it in the course but the other people involved in organizing events said it will be fine and want it in. Hopefully everyone else is a much better rider than I am. I don't turn so well on inclines.

It has less than a 10ft rise through this round about.


Last edited by Vertigo; 2017-06-23 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 2017-06-26, 12:48 AM   #27
lzybkr
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The criterium course does not include any steep sections, certainly not by Seattle standards anyway, and it is so short that nobody will get much speed out of it.

I honestly think most people won't even notice the slight rise as it helps set you up to turn more than anything, almost like a berm.

We did discuss extending the course some to include one real hill, but we agreed it wasn't really needed. Besides, we have plenty of ups and downs with muni happening before the criterium
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Old 2017-06-26, 03:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lzybkr View Post
The criterium course does not include any steep sections, certainly not by Seattle standards anyway, and it is so short that nobody will get much speed out of it.

I honestly think most people won't even notice the slight rise as it helps set you up to turn more than anything, almost like a berm.

We did discuss extending the course some to include one real hill, but we agreed it wasn't really needed. Besides, we have plenty of ups and downs with muni happening before the criterium
Thanks for adding that.

I should have described it better. It's not steep. I can ride up steeper hills but have a difficult time turning at the same time.

Last edited by Vertigo; 2017-06-26 at 03:36 AM.
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Old 2017-07-26, 02:28 AM   #29
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I survived ...

Hey everyone, I survived NAUCC 2017. It was a very busy week. Ended up being the director of the 10k as well as the criterium.

Just wanted to throw one more piece of info into this thread. I just found the "missing" manual I heard about in Spain (Unicon) last summer. It's here -> Unicycling Convention Guidebook.

I was thrilled to see many smiling faces cross the finish lines.
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