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Old 2009-12-28, 01:19 PM   #1
Kepa
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Loose bearing with ISIS hub

Hi guys!,

Recently I bought a first hand quax muni 24'' with ISIS hub. After ridding it four times or so (without any high jumps, just easy cross country), I started to notice a creaking noise almost every turn of the wheel. When I was looking for the source of the sound I found out that one of the bearings is loose and can move freely along the axle.

Although the bearings are the ones made by Quax for the ISIS hub, it seems as if the one that is loose is too big for the axle. I also found some black dust on the axle, as if either the bearing or the axle had worn out... .

I would like to know if this is normal, or if I should go back to the shop to complain. Does any of you know what could be the problem?.

Thanks a lot!
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Old 2009-12-28, 06:02 PM   #2
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you should consider to put spacer between crank and bearing to avoid bearing sliding; spacer width has to be defined to compress the bearing on the axle just before cranks are fully tightened
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Old 2009-12-28, 07:39 PM   #3
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Did you overtighten the bearing holders (for want of a better word?) on the bottom of the fork? If they're too tight they can crush the bearings eventually. They need to rotate as freely as possible.

Otherwise, could be a manufacturing defect with the bearings?
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Old 2009-12-31, 03:28 AM   #4
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From your description, it sounds like the inner race can slide on the part that contacts the axle. Not good, this should be a press fit.

2 options, 1 send it back, it should be a tight press fit (driven on with a pipe that only hits the inner race. Shouldn't be loose there.

2, If it is removable by hand, and not all terribly loose, clean the parts and put the bearing back on with red loctite. Loctite is a liquid you can buy at an auto parts store.
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Old 2009-12-31, 06:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feel the light View Post
From your description, it sounds like the inner race can slide on the part that contacts the axle. Not good, this should be a press fit.

2 options, 1 send it back, it should be a tight press fit (driven on with a pipe that only hits the inner race. Shouldn't be loose there.

2, If it is removable by hand, and not all terribly loose, clean the parts and put the bearing back on with red loctite. Loctite is a liquid you can buy at an auto parts store.
I concur on option 1, but...

Normal "red" Loctite (Loctite 262) or "blue" Loctite (242) are intended as thread lockers. The best product to use in this situation is Loctite 609 (medium strength, you can still remove it with a bearing puller) or Loctite 648 (high strength, unlikely a puller alone without also heating to 150C will ever remove it). 609 and 648 are both green in color. They should be used in conjunction with the Loctite 7649 activator. I use 609 with 7649 for all the bearings I install and have had no reports of them ever coming off on their own. 648 would scare me.

Note you need to assembly *QUICKLY* or you'll just get the bearing set halfway on! From the instructions, "Spray with Activator 7471 or 7649 and allow to dry", then "apply adhesive thoroughly to both bond surfaces and assemble at high press on rates.". I usually use a deep socket as a press tool; one that touches the inner race of the bearing only (so as not to damage it), but clears the axle, and try to hammer it on rapidly with just a few blows. Let sit an hour or so (if you use the activator) before riding.
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Old 2009-12-31, 09:08 AM   #6
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If you have no spacers between crank and bearing, it's rather "normal" to loose bearings ! The loose problem cannot come from the bearing but from the axis itself which keeps some wear and even with new bearings you will keep the same bearing loose concern .....

When I had it on my 29", I installed spacers and I didn't change the bearing but did stick them with special Loctite product, not the ones recommended above as they are product for threads !!!! I used special Loctite for bearings : 648 Scelbloc http://www.kramp.com/shop/action/ite...bloc+Loctite__

Last week I had to replace my bearings because rather used and I could remove them with an appropriate bearing pull off tool and the new bearings are loose of course as the wear is on the axis but I used again Loctite 648 and no problem at all.
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Old 2010-01-01, 12:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelman View Post
I concur on option 1, but...

Normal "red" Loctite (Loctite 262) or "blue" Loctite (242) are intended as thread lockers. The best product to use in this situation is Loctite 609 (medium strength, you can still remove it with a bearing puller) or Loctite 648 (high strength, unlikely a puller alone without also heating to 150C will ever remove it). 609 and 648 are both green in color. They should be used in conjunction with the Loctite 7649 activator. I use 609 with 7649 for all the bearings I install and have had no reports of them ever coming off on their own. 648 would scare me.

Note you need to assembly *QUICKLY* or you'll just get the bearing set halfway on! From the instructions, "Spray with Activator 7471 or 7649 and allow to dry", then "apply adhesive thoroughly to both bond surfaces and assemble at high press on rates.". I usually use a deep socket as a press tool; one that touches the inner race of the bearing only (so as not to damage it), but clears the axle, and try to hammer it on rapidly with just a few blows. Let sit an hour or so (if you use the activator) before riding.
That was interesting, I have only used red and blue, so I did a little research.

The 609 you recommend is red (max strength loctite). The official Loctite web site lists only 3 loctites, red, blue and green. Or welded, stuck or
piddly goo for tiny stuff.

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/produ...ID=10&SubID=48

On the industrial part of the Loctite site, they list the 609 Loctite you mention. My guess is that these aren't found in most auto parts stores. In auto stores, it will be just red, blue and green. Blue is great for pedals, red is what you want for bearings. Definitely avoid green, it is for electronic size tiny bolts, and won't do a thing.

The red Loctite you will find at auto mart needs no activator. Just be sure the parts are clean and oil free.
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Old 2010-01-01, 12:23 AM   #8
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Why'd they do that ?

It is likely Adelman is correct when he said the 609 fluid is green. Not so long ago (I have a good one in my tool box), blue loctite was in a blue tube. Now it looks like they put red, blue and green all in red tubes, changing just the color of the label. What's up with that ?
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Old 2010-01-01, 12:59 AM   #9
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Here is a site with good info

Seems like Adelman is right, that if you are willing to go the extra step to find 609 green , it is special bearing retaining stuff.

So get that ? 609 green, in a red bottle, labeled "green" if you buy online, and red in a red tube labeled "red", instead of the red tube labeled "green" if you buy at your local parts store. Anyway, that's the way they do it.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=667024
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Old 2010-01-01, 01:38 AM   #10
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loc tite comes in all colors of bottles with all colors of labels, i have a red bottle with the word blue printed on it... and a blue bottle with the word red on it.

i don't ever suggest using red loc tite. it bonds threads together and i have personally ruined lots of things with it. threads like to break OFF easily when it is used. bearings need to be removable... use the normal stuff! it works!!
if it aint broke, don't fix it... unless you want it broke real soon.
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Old 2010-01-01, 03:03 AM   #11
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Yeah, but you don't pull the bearing off until it's busted

I have never had to use loctite on uni bearings. The red stuff will seize up small parts, that's why I called it "weld". Like it says on their site, it is made for bolts > half inch.

I think the 609 stuff sounds good, Adel says you can pull em off later not to hard. The common auto part red stuff should work in a pinch likely just as well.

If I had to pick from auto parts red or blue, I would go with the red, because of the side loads on the uni bearing. It's not a threaded bolt that can snap off. At worse, with a little heat, auto parts red glued bearings could be pulled off with a common puller.
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Old 2010-01-01, 03:58 AM   #12
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Don't make the mistake of using the green wick in loctite thinking that it is somehow weaker than the blue stuff. It's low viscosity is to aid in wicking into assembled parts.

Normal Green Loctite is much stronger than the blue stuff, but it's watery appearance is misleading. If you use it on bolts that have a good amount of surface area this stuff sets up like glue.
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Old 2010-01-01, 05:39 AM   #13
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Loctite makes hundreds, maybe thousands, of products. Color isn't an indication of the application. 262 (aka Red) is a *threadlocker* for PERMANENT installations (or big heat required to remove it). 242 (aka Blue) is a threadlocker that you can later remove. 609 is designed to secure a press-fit, specifically a bearing onto a shaft. 648 is designed to do the same thing in a more permanent fashion.

Use the correct product for the job.
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Old 2010-01-12, 09:37 AM   #14
Kepa
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Hi guys!,

Thanks a lot for your advices!!. I'll try to fix it this afternoon. I hope that this special loctite is not very difficult to find... .

Cheers!.
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