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Old 2016-11-13, 03:57 PM   #346
elpuebloUNIdo
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I've spoken with a few acquaintances and colleagues who're somewhat more conservative than I am; my impression of their attitude about Donald Trump being president is:

"WHAT-ME WORRY?"

MAD Magazine's Alfred E. Neuman

More than one person has told me that, despite all his bluster, Donald Trump will have to work with others in the government to get anything done, and for this reason he'll have to be more moderate. This argument ignores the fact that the Republicans are poised to control all three branches of the federal government, and that Republicans haven't exactly been quiet about what they'd like to do with their power.

In the last 24 hours, I've conversed with two people, whom, despite their dislike for Donald Trump, are currently obsessed with their dislike for protesters in the street. One person told me how unfair it was for hard working people to be held up in traffic because of protesters blocking the streets. The other person was obsessed with the rock-throwing, window-breaking, violent protesters. I told her that the violent protesters did not necessarily represent the crowd at large. I stopped short of saying that police repression of the protests would make the actions of the protesters pale in comparison. Our conversation ended when she said we should "pray" that everything works out all right.
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Old 2016-11-13, 05:12 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by elpuebloUNIdo View Post

More than one person has told me that, despite all his bluster, Donald Trump will have to work with others in the government to get anything done, and for this reason he'll have to be more moderate. This argument ignores the fact that the Republicans are poised to control all three branches of the federal government, and that Republicans haven't exactly been quiet about what they'd like to do with their power.
I wonder how the Republicans will work with Trump. Will he forgive and forget? Will they actually help him move forward on the promises he made?

I thought most Republicans support trade agreements. I think many Americans voted for him because he promised to keep jobs from leaving. Specifically, ones at Carrier in Indiana. The company says it won't change its plans. They are moving jobs to Mexico. Trump says he'll impose a 35% tariff on their imported products. Frankly I don't see that happening. So, I wonder when his blue collar supporters will realize he can't change situations like that on his own.

I think the Republicans will try their best to move on without regard to him or his supporters. They'll ignore Trump and move forward with their own agenda.

Last edited by Vertigo; 2016-11-13 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 2016-11-14, 01:53 PM   #348
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What I find most amazing is that half the country is so unaware of what the other half is thinking/feeling that this was a surprise at all.
That isolation from reality, if not changed, will be the end of this great country.
It won't be the Clintons or Trumps that do it........IT WILL BE US !!!
Non racist white people aren't always aware of their racist white co-workers. But saw a Black comedian say they've always been aware of the racists.

Of course, some who voted for Trump are those non-racists who aren't excessively bothered by racism, non-sexual offenders who aren't excessively bothered by offending, people who would not make fun of a person with disability who aren't particularly bothered by making fun of .....

All it takes for evil to prosper is for "good" people to do nothing.
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Old 2016-11-14, 05:11 PM   #349
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not what I was thinking

Hmmm, interesting.
This wasn't in my head at all. I was thinking of all the people out of work or just generally feeling they weren't getting a good deal from their government that wanted a change in the current system. I don't feel the majority of Trump voters were thinking like you say anymore than all Clinton voters are pure of thought.
To a degree, I would think the folks on this forum are not aware of the state of things to a full extent. Myself included. We have conversations on how to improve a $600 unicycle when so may in the US are struggling to keep the home, and food on the table.
This is why Trump was able to "sneak" in and win. Clinton was not talking to all the people.
Something I do believe strongly is everyone should be treated equally. That being said I am proud to be white, everyone should be proud of their color and heritage. All color fading into beige is ridiculous. PC cops be damned.
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Old 2016-11-14, 09:37 PM   #350
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We have conversations on how to improve a $600 unicycle when so may in the US are struggling to keep the home, and food on the table.
Yes, hunger, malnutrition and obesity are widespread in the US, which has higher rates of poverty than almost any other industrialized country, and homelessness is now at record levels in most American cities and towns, but in fairness to this forum, we do have lots of discussions here about how to make unicycling available to the masses, how to fix a $30 uni, how to make money as a street performer, etc.

And besides, isn't doing more with less pretty much what unicycling is all about? Last year a man saw me riding on a crowded bike path, surrounded by expensive bikes, and from about 50 yards away he pointed at me and roared out: "That's the Obama bike: You only get half!" Actually, now that I think of it, that encounter happened close to the epicenter of what has now become the no-fly zone around Trump Tower...
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Old 2016-11-15, 11:55 AM   #351
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for those who understand french:
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Old 2016-11-15, 01:52 PM   #352
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That being said I am proud to be white, everyone should be proud of their color and heritage. All color fading into beige is ridiculous. PC cops be damned.
I don't really understand the PC-bashing mode.
I think etiquette is part of a culture (in my culture there is even etiquette for breaking the rules ).
You are right heritage is important: we need to enrich it ... I respect my ancestors (though I may criticize their behaviour -after all hunting mammoth may have been cruel enough -)
now what I don't understand is the relation to "color"? Do you consider that having a big nose is something that draws a border between "you "and "them" ? Your skin may be "pink" and mine is "beige" ... so what's the point?
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Old 2016-11-15, 01:56 PM   #353
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Who would vote to give a KKKlan-backed misogynist racist far-reaching power if they promised to help YOU economically?

For many, racism is a deal breaker.

Let's say a KKKlan-backed misogynist, crotch-grabbing racist wanted to be president of the Unicycle Society. If he offered to personally fund UNICON with lots of scholarships and cover travel & all expenses for all the officers, would you want that person for president?

I would not.
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The problem with the over-familiar, cliché-prone way of describing things, according to Alain de Botton: “Clichés are detrimental in so far as they inspire us to believe that they adequately describe a situation while merely grazing at its surface.”
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Old 2016-11-15, 04:16 PM   #354
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I don't really understand the PC-bashing mode.
Your skin may be "pink" and mine is "beige" ... so what's the point?
The ideal held by some that color should not be seen, everyone is the same. In another thousand years people will be predominantly beige due to mixing but now color is obvious and should not be ignored. Being equal does not mean being the same.
How far are we from the time when all earthlings get to wear the silver jumpsuits? You know, the ones with the large V on the chest that's in all the movies portraying the future.
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Old 2016-11-15, 05:48 PM   #355
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Being equal does not mean being the same.
absolutely true! but why base differences on skin color? why not on the color of the socks?
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Old 2016-11-17, 05:49 PM   #356
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How far are we from the time when all earthlings get to wear the silver jumpsuits? You know, the ones with the large V on the chest that's in all the movies portraying the future.
You only get to wear that if you're in a glitter rock band.

What's that V for anyway?
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The problem with the over-familiar, cliché-prone way of describing things, according to Alain de Botton: “Clichés are detrimental in so far as they inspire us to believe that they adequately describe a situation while merely grazing at its surface.”
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Old 2016-11-22, 06:20 PM   #357
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Something I do believe strongly is everyone should be treated equally.
Absolutely, something with which this country has always struggled. We are about to be tested on how much it matters to us, the people.
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Who would vote to give a KKKlan-backed misogynist racist far-reaching power if they promised to help YOU economically?
Many millions more than I would have thought. Were they just listening to his words, or were they vetting him to see if he meant it? Uh...
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Originally Posted by William393
For many, racism is a deal breaker.
Yes but apparently not enough. Racism seems to be one of the core principles of the cabinet he's putting together. Those who are not cool with white supremacists being in charge of high-level government must not remain quiet. Trump does not denounce all the upticks in racist and hate incidents going on around the country. Yes, he has commented on it when asked, but he's not giving the impression that he has a problem with it. He mostly seems to hope we'll ignore it. We must not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William393
Let's say a KKKlan-backed misogynist, crotch-grabbing racist wanted to be president of the Unicycle Society. If he offered to personally fund UNICON with lots of scholarships and cover travel & all expenses for all the officers, would you want that person for president?
The difference is, he would be the president of a unicycle organization, and not making laws or policy. Big difference! That said, I would definitely have a hard time taking his money for anything.
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The ideal held by some that color should not be seen, everyone is the same.
I don't think the idea is not to see color. The idea is to not judge people by color (or all that other stuff). We are not the same, but we are supposed to be treated equally under the law. We aren't.

People should be proud of their culture, and mostly I don't see others having a problem with it. The ones that do are the ones that think their culture is better than others. Like the white supremacist making his speech at that convention the other night, telling how America was built by white people (untrue), of pure European blood (also untrue), etc. etc. I have a message for that guy. Go back to Europe. You won't be welcomed there. Or try reading the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Don't just look at pictures of the (white) guys who wrote and signed them, try to understand their words. Because right now you don't.
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Old 2016-11-24, 09:52 PM   #358
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Were they just listening to his words, or were they vetting him to see if he meant it?
He said "Make America great again," and the Democrats said "America is already great!" For huge numbers of people across the US, that answer is simply unacceptable, and with good reason. Infrastructure (among other things) is crumbling, and Trump often told the truth about that. His opponents just tried to deny it.

His plan for rebuilding, however, is likely to be based on the Obamacare model of regressive taxation. Free healthcare for all would be great; forcing everyone to buy shitty health insurance that they can't afford is definitely not great! Doing desperately needed maintenance work on bridges, tunnels and railways would also be great, but when the corporations that Trump puts in charge of this project do it on the cheap and then make you pay a $30 bridge toll...

More than once, Trump said that the trillions of dollars spent on the Global War on Terror (or whatever it's called now) would have been better spent rebuilding the US. That's a great thing to say, but the fact that he is now filling his cabinet with the usual imperialist warlords shows that it was just hot air.
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Old 2016-11-25, 10:03 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by song;1677529}

More than once, Trump said that the trillions of dollars spent on the Global War on Terror (or whatever it's called now) would have been better spent rebuilding the US. That's a great thing to say, but the fact that he is now filling his cabinet with [B
the usual imperialist warlords [/B]shows that it was just hot air.
??!!!!Usual!!???
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The problem with the over-familiar, cliché-prone way of describing things, according to Alain de Botton: “Clichés are detrimental in so far as they inspire us to believe that they adequately describe a situation while merely grazing at its surface.”
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Old 2016-11-26, 12:45 AM   #360
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Not "usual" in the sense of being the same individuals as before, but the same politics. Mitt Romney, whom Trump is considering for secretary of state, has said that Russia is "without question our number one geopolitical foe.” Rudy Giuliani, also being considered for the job, has made similar statements, as has Mike Pompeo, Trump's choice for CIA director.

While campaigning, Trump occasionally questioned the bellicose attitude toward Russia that prevails in Washington, triggering a furious gutter press response each time, even from the most respectable newspapers. There were even allegations that Trump was some sort of Russian agent, a "Siberian candidate," though these voices became abruptly silent after he won. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, was calling for the creation of a "no-fly zone" in Syria, a bit like she did with Libya prior to obliterating it, and an American general said that such a move in Syria would lead directly to war with Russia. That's why, before the election, I liked to joke that we were being asked to choose between World War 3 and the KKK, though I always pointed out that electing the one would not necessarily prevent the other.

Obama's regime change operation in Syria could very easily escalate into a major regional conflict (if it hasn't already) and from there to nuclear war. From what Trump was saying, it sounded like he had a desire to avoid this scenario, but his current actions suggest otherwise. I do hope I'm wrong about this, of course, but I don't see much cause for optimism right now.
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