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Old 2001-03-01, 03:33 PM   #1
Raphael Lasar
Newsgroup User
 
Posts: n/a
I happened to come across some of Kris Holm's photos at:

http://community.webshots.com/album/9582686tfuCDMFanl

and after recovering from the nausea inspired by looking at:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...1761fZoQzSIqKp

I decided that I was relieved to see that he is wearing his helmet. After
all, you'd want to make sure you had a helmet on to blunt the impact of a
2000 foot fall.

I am, although undecided about, not unsympathetic to laws that attempt to
prevent people from engaging in activities that are direct threats to their own
lives. (What constitutes a threat,
e.g. smoking, is, I acknowledge, a highly debatable topic). Nonetheless, were
someone to fall to their death performing such an act as depicted in the
photo, they would certainly be eligible for a Darwin Award, I think.

So, while I am more or less content to ride my unicycles away from traffic and
my leanings on this subject are pretty clear, I'd love to hear some discussion
from extreme unicycling (or sports in general) practitioners about the feelings
they experience and their attitude concerning the obvious dangers and risks
they assume.

Raphael Lasar Matawan, NJ
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Old 2001-03-01, 05:39 PM   #2
David Stone
Newsgroup User
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Extreme Unicycling

rlasar@lucent.com writes:
[color=blue]>I happened to come across some of Kris Holm's photos at:[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]>http://community.webshots.com/album/9582686tfuCDMFanl[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]>and after recovering from the nausea inspired by looking at:[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]>http://community.webshots.com/photo/...1761fZoQzSIqKp[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]>I decided that I was relieved to see that he is wearing his helmet. After[/color]
[color=blue]>all, you'd want to make sure you had a helmet on to blunt the impact of a[/color]
[color=blue]>2000 foot fall.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]>I am, although undecided about, not unsympathetic to laws that attempt to[/color]
[color=blue]>prevent people from engaging in activities that are direct threats to their own[/color]
[color=blue]>lives. (What constitutes a threat,[/color]
[color=blue]>e.g. smoking, is, I acknowledge, a highly debatable topic). Nonetheless, were[/color]
[color=blue]> someone to fall to their death performing such an act as depicted in the[/color]
[color=blue]> photo, they would certainly be eligible for a Darwin Award, I think.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]>So, while I am more or less content to ride my unicycles away from traffic and[/color]
[color=blue]>my leanings on this subject are pretty clear, I'd love to hear some discussion[/color]
[color=blue]>from extreme unicycling (or sports in general) practitioners about the feelings[/color]
[color=blue]>they experience and their attitude concerning the obvious dangers and risks[/color]
[color=blue]>they assume.[/color]
The perceived risk Raphael is referring to is that Kris is riding alongside a
cliff with a steep and fatal drop (I wonder if he considered a parachute!). In
actual fact, Kris must have been about 2-5 feet from the edge at all times (he's
no fool). He probably had as much chance of falling as a person riding along on
the sidewalk has of suddenly careening into traffic (that is, virtually nil).
Kris takes more risks when he attempts great jumps or zooms across long fallen
trees (like in UniVerse) than when riding along a cliff.

Just my 2 cents. - David
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Old 2001-03-01, 07:53 PM   #3
Kris Holm
Newsgroup User
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Extreme Unicycling

Hi,

Risk acceptability in adventure sports is a very interesting topic and one that
has been debated back in forth in the literature for mountain sports in general
for over 150 years. In many adventure sports, some people seem to voluntarily
put themselves in positions of personal hazard, so there must be some
attraction to it.

Although 90% of the time I don't ride in situations where a fall would have
serious or fatal consequences, it's true that I've been in situations where if I
fell I would die. This has also been the case on a number of occasions for me
when rockclimbing, ice climbing and mountaineering (definately I've been in way
more serious situations when climbing than unicycling).

It's impossible to fully justify the motivation for this- I think it's a case
where if someone can't understand why then it's impossible to fully explain the
rationale.

However, for many adventure sport athletes, I think that a big motivator is that
of control. Having both physical and mental control over yourself in challenging
situations is an awesome feeling. If the rider makes a rational decision, based
on both the potential risk and also their ability to handle that risk, that they
can do something that other people would not justify doing, then I personally
have respect for their decision. It's not for everyone though!

Cheers,

Kris.

--- Raphael Lasar <rlasar@lucent.com> wrote:
[color=blue]> I happened to come across some of Kris Holm's photos at:[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> http://community.webshots.com/album/9582686tfuCDMFanl[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> and after recovering from the nausea inspired by looking at:[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> http://community.webshots.com/photo/...1761fZoQzSIqKp[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> I decided that I was relieved to see that he is wearing his helmet. After[/color]
[color=blue]> all, you'd want to make sure you had a helmet on to blunt the impact of a[/color]
[color=blue]> 2000 foot fall.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> I am, although undecided about, not unsympathetic to laws that attempt to[/color]
[color=blue]> prevent people from engaging in activities that are direct threats to their[/color]
[color=blue]> own lives. (What constitutes a threat,[/color]
[color=blue]> e.g. smoking, is, I acknowledge, a highly debatable topic). Nonetheless, were[/color]
[color=blue]> someone to fall to their death performing such an act as depicted in the[/color]
[color=blue]> photo, they would certainly be eligible for a Darwin Award, I think.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> So, while I am more or less content to ride my unicycles away from traffic and[/color]
[color=blue]> my leanings on this subject are pretty clear, I'd love to hear some discussion[/color]
[color=blue]> from extreme unicycling (or sports in general) practitioners about the[/color]
[color=blue]> feelings they experience and their attitude concerning the obvious dangers and[/color]
[color=blue]> risks they assume.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> Raphael Lasar Matawan, NJ[/color]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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Old 2001-03-01, 08:38 PM   #4
Nathan Hoover
Newsgroup User
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Extreme Unicycling

Having riden with Kris, I can say that he had MUCH less chance of eating it
there then a regular person has driving to work. He did not get where he is by
taking risks without thinking, but by many years of thoughtful risk evaluation
while developing his skills. Sure it's dangerous, but what isn't? A 2000' fall
or falling down 6' hitting your head leaves you just as dead. Just looking at
the photo might blow your mind, but you have to look at it in context - the
context is Kris's years of riding and his unique skill.

---Nathan

"Raphael Lasar" <rlasar@lucent.com> wrote in message
news:3A9E6BD4.7BB04AF8@lucent.com...
[color=blue]> I happened to come across some of Kris Holm's photos at:[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> http://community.webshots.com/album/9582686tfuCDMFanl[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> and after recovering from the nausea inspired by looking at:[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> http://community.webshots.com/photo/...1761fZoQzSIqKp[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> I decided that I was relieved to see that he is wearing his helmet. After[/color]
[color=blue]> all, you'd want to make sure you had a helmet on to blunt the impact of a[/color]
[color=blue]> 2000 foot fall.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> I am, although undecided about, not unsympathetic to laws that attempt to[/color]
[color=blue]> prevent people from engaging in activities that are direct threats to their[/color]
[color=blue]> own lives. (What constitutes a threat,[/color]
[color=blue]> e.g. smoking, is, I acknowledge, a highly debatable topic). Nonetheless, were[/color]
[color=blue]> someone to fall to their death performing such an act as depicted in the[/color]
[color=blue]> photo, they would certainly be eligible for a Darwin Award, I think.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> So, while I am more or less content to ride my unicycles away from traffic[/color]
[color=blue]> and my leanings on this subject are pretty clear, I'd love to hear some[/color]
[color=blue]> discussion from extreme unicycling (or sports in general) practitioners about[/color]
[color=blue]> the feelings they experience and their attitude concerning the obvious[/color]
[color=blue]> dangers and risks[/color]
they
[color=blue]> assume.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> Raphael Lasar Matawan, NJ[/color]
  Reply With Quote
Old 2001-03-01, 09:37 PM   #5
Tom Holub
Newsgroup User
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Extreme Unicycling

In article <fc.000f4e67004a2f413b9aca007b33f37c.4a2f65@packer.edu>, David Stone
<dstone@packer.edu> wrote: )The perceived risk Raphael is referring to is that
Kris is riding )alongside a cliff with a steep and fatal drop (I wonder if he
considered a )parachute!). In actual fact, Kris must have been about 2-5 feet
from the )edge at all times (he's no fool). He probably had as much chance of
)falling as a person riding along on the sidewalk has of suddenly careening
)into traffic (that is, virtually nil). Kris takes more risks when he )attempts
great jumps or zooms across long fallen trees (like in UniVerse) )than when
riding along a cliff.

Besides, if you've seen UNiVERSE you'd realize Kris has maybe a 50/50 chance of
sticking a landing at terminal velocity, if his cranks don't break. -Tom
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Old 2001-03-01, 10:26 PM   #6
Nycjoe@aol.com
Newsgroup User
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Extreme Unicycling

It is an interesting topic. Anyone know of any good books on the "extreme"
tendency? I have a friend who broke his leg on his sixth parachute jump. They
took the pins out of his leg recently. He'll be jumping out of planes again
soon. Some think he's nuts. Personally, I understand, but I'll stick to
unicycle. Obviously there's some kind of addictive quality to the extreme
sports. Adrenaline perhaps? Some people crave it, some don't. I like the
adrenaline, but, having kids, I pass on the more dangerous sports at this point
in my life. What I love about uni/muni/trials, is that I get the same rush I
used to get downhill skiing, but not nearly as dangerous or expensive!

That's my 2 cents

[color=blue]> Hi,[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> Risk acceptability in adventure sports is a very interesting topic and one[/color]
[color=blue]> that has been debated back in forth in the literature for mountain sports in[/color]
[color=blue]> general for over[/color]
150
[color=blue]> years. In many adventure sports, some people seem to voluntarily put[/color]
[color=blue]> themselves in positions of personal hazard, so there must be some[/color]
[color=blue]> attraction to it.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> Although 90% of the time I don't ride in situations where a fall would[/color]
have
[color=blue]> serious or fatal consequences, it's true that I've been in situations where if[/color]
[color=blue]> I fell I[/color]
would
[color=blue]> die. This has also been the case on a number of occasions for me when[/color]
[color=blue]> rockclimbing, ice climbing and mountaineering (definately I've been in[/color]
[color=blue]> way more serious situations when climbing than unicycling).[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> It's impossible to fully justify the motivation for this- I think it's a case[/color]
[color=blue]> where if someone can't understand why then it's impossible to fully explain[/color]
[color=blue]> the rationale.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> However, for many adventure sport athletes, I think that a big motivator[/color]
is
[color=blue]> that of control. Having both physical and mental control over yourself in[/color]
[color=blue]> challenging situations is an awesome feeling. If the rider makes a rational[/color]
[color=blue]> decision, based on both the potential risk and also their ability to handle[/color]
[color=blue]> that risk, that they can do something that other people would not justify[/color]
[color=blue]> doing, then I personally have respect for their decision. It's not for[/color]
[color=blue]> everyone though![/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> Cheers,[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> Kris.[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> --- Raphael Lasar <rlasar@lucent.com> wrote:[/color]
[color=blue]> > I happened to come across some of Kris Holm's photos at:[/color]
[color=blue]> >[/color]
[color=blue]> > http://community.webshots.com/album/9582686tfuCDMFanl[/color]
[color=blue]> >[/color]
[color=blue]> > and after recovering from the nausea inspired by looking at:[/color]
[color=blue]> >[/color]
[color=blue]> > http://community.webshots.com/photo/...1761fZoQzSIqKp[/color]
[color=blue]> >[/color]
[color=blue]> > I decided that I was relieved to see that he is wearing his helmet. After[/color]
[color=blue]> > all, you'd want to make sure you had a helmet on to blunt the impact of a[/color]
[color=blue]> > 2000 foot fall.[/color]
[color=blue]> >[/color]
[color=blue]> > I am, although undecided about, not unsympathetic to laws that attempt to[/color]
[color=blue]> > prevent people from engaging in activities that are direct threats to their[/color]
[color=blue]> > own lives. (What constitutes a threat,[/color]
[color=blue]> > e.g. smoking, is, I acknowledge, a highly debatable topic). Nonetheless,[/color]
[color=blue]> > were someone to fall to their death performing such an act as depicted[/color]
[color=blue]> > in the photo, they would certainly be eligible for a Darwin Award, I[/color]
[color=blue]> > think.[/color]
[color=blue]> >[/color]
[color=blue]> > So, while I am more or less content to ride my unicycles away from traffic[/color]
[color=blue]> > and my leanings on this subject are pretty clear, I'd love to hear some[/color]
[color=blue]> > discussion from extreme unicycling (or sports in general) practitioners[/color]
[color=blue]> > about the feelings they experience and their attitude concerning the[/color]
[color=blue]> > obvious dangers and risks[/color]
[color=blue]> they[/color]
[color=blue]> > assume.[/color]
[color=blue]> >[/color]
[color=blue]> > Raphael Lasar Matawan, NJ[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]>[/color]
[color=blue]> _[/color]
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Old 2001-03-01, 11:11 PM   #7
John Foss
Newsgroup User
 
Posts: n/a
RE: Extreme Unicycling

Kris Holm wrote:

[color=blue]> Risk acceptability in adventure sports is a very interesting topic and one[/color]
[color=blue]> that has been debated back in forth in the literature for mountain sports in[/color]
[color=blue]> general for over 150 years.[/color]

I think it's important to remember that there is nothing new in the concept of
adventure sports. People have been taking risks for fun or profit for all of
human history. I think the ones that have done it successfully (repeatedly) have
always enjoyed the thrill of the risk.

I take risks too, though at a much lower level than Kris. I have to balance the
trill of making it against the fear of messing up and maybe getting hurt.

I've seen Kris ride in casual, unfamiliar, and very familiar situations. Even
when he appears to be way over the danger line, for Kris he's almost always
riding within his limits.

How much risk one is willing to take is a personal choice, but you're only
making smart choices if you know you have the skills to do what you're doing
with a reasonable guarantee of success.

[color=blue]> it's true that I've been in situations where if I fell I would die. This has[/color]
[color=blue]> also been the case on a number of occasions for me when rockclimbing, ice[/color]
[color=blue]> climbing and mountaineering (definately I've been in way more serious[/color]
[color=blue]> situations when climbing than unicycling).[/color]

Kris obviously feels safer on the unicycle than even most unicyclists, let alone
non-riders. Sure it's a very dangerous situation when you're ice climbing or
otherwise, but at least you have both hands and hopefully a rope to help you
out... :-)

Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone http://www.unicycling.com

"I'm one of those people who pray, 'God, give me patience and do it now!'" --
Carol McLean, Twin Cities Unicycle Club
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Old 2001-03-02, 01:12 AM   #8
Maxfield D
Newsgroup User
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Extreme Unicycling

[color=blue]>Anyone know of any good books on the "extreme"[/color]

Sort of... the book, Addicted to Danger.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...165/sr=1-1/ref
=sc_b_1/105-4754102-1390317

It's not a flattering portrait. Wickwire sacrifices friends and family every
time there is a choice. The book opens with a grueling scene of slow death as
Wickwire tries and fails to rescue a friend who has become stuck in a crevass.
He ends up huddling in his tent to stay warm while he listens to his friend grow
delirious and die. It's not at all like Muni Weekend.

David Maxfield Bainbridge Island, WA
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Old 2001-03-02, 07:05 PM   #9
Arnold the Aardvark
Newsgroup User
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Extreme Unicycling

One's life is one's own. It is not the property of the government or anybody
else. Americans such as yourself purportedly appreciate this sort of basic
freedom better than most.

Where you feel nausea, I feel excitement and wheel-envy. Good for Kris! I speak
as one who broke his wrist on a smooth flat floor...

Arnold the Aardvark
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Old 2001-03-02, 09:22 PM   #10
John Foss
Newsgroup User
 
Posts: n/a
RE: Extreme Unicycling

[color=blue]> One's life is one's own. It is not the property of the government or anybody[/color]
[color=blue]> else. Americans such as yourself purportedly appreciate this sort of basic[/color]
[color=blue]> freedom better than most.[/color]

I agree with Arnold. Though we Americans may not appreciate our freedom as much,
as we grew up here.

The world is always full of people who want to tell other people how to
live. Sometimes it's for religious reasons, sometimes for safety, and sometimes
due to matters of "taste". Where our freedom gets limited in this country
is often associated with liability and insurance. Lawyers have made it
possible for anyone to sue anyone for anything. Nobody seems to be
responsible for their own actions anymore.

When it comes to extreme sports, players may be limited by insurance or private
ownership of the places where they want to play. For example the extreme North
Shore trail area in Vancouver is something that could probably never exist in
this country. If it were public land there would already have been continuous
court cases until everything were torn down.

How nice that riders in Canada have the "freedom" to make their own choices
about their personal safety and ride if they choose. When I went on that
memorable day after NUC '99, none of us was injured. We chose what not to ride
on and enjoyed watching Kris ride the rest.

For people thinking of extreme activities, I hope you are checking first to see
that you aren't violating any existing laws or private property. And if
something bad happens to you, I hope you will contain the responsibility where
it belongs, and not try to sue the owners of the venue, the makers of the
unicycle, etc.

Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone http://www.unicycling.com

"Nostalgia isn't what it used to be"
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