Recommendations for 29" tire for road/pavement/street

[pstrick]

Originally Posted by DavidHood

One thing missing from this conversation is rim width. My KH29 came with a KH Freeride rim which is 47mm wide which really spreads out higher volume tires like the 2.4" Maxxis Ardent. Whereas the Kris Holm 29" XC Rim which is only 38mm wide would be much better suited to the 2" Schwalbe 'big apple' tire. I contemplated waiting for the release of the 29" Oracle which comes with the 42mm wide Nimbus 29" Dominator2 Rim. In the end, I want my 29er to be set up for off-road use hence my decision. I have a really nice (see auto sig) 36er for the road. I must admit, my KH Freeride rim and the 2.4" tire is not bad at all on the road. Then again, the whole kit is so much lighter than a geared 36er that you barely notice the knobs.

I'm a bit late to this conversation but having the road tire blow off my new 29" Oracle with the 42mm rim put me to searching the forums for help! When I ordered it I asked UDC to put the Big Apple 29x2.0 on for road riding. I have been very happy riding a Big Apple 26x2.35 on my 26" wheel so ordered one for the 29er. The new tire is rated up to 70psi, so I inflated to 65, and later that night I heard a loud bang (thought someone broke into the house!) which was the tube popping after the tire bead popped off the rim. I replaced the tube and slowly inflated to 40psi and I can see how the bead is getting pushed off the rim. I've read about this phenomenon in other threads (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...t=43362&page=2).

My questions are: Will this be an issue with every 2.0" tire I put on my rim (such as the Marathon Supreme)? Will this happen (or be less likely to happen) if I get the 29x2.15 or the 29x2.35 Big Apple? I like to ride at higher pressures for speed/efficiency.

[mad]

Originally Posted by pstrick

I'm a bit late to this conversation but having the road tire blow off my new 29" Oracle with the 42mm rim put me to searching the forums for help! When I ordered it I asked UDC to put the Big Apple 29x2.0 on for road riding. I have been very happy riding a Big Apple 26x2.35 on my 26" wheel so ordered one for the 29er. The new tire is rated up to 70psi, so I inflated to 65, and later that night I heard a loud bang (thought someone broke into the house!) which was the tube popping after the tire bead popped off the rim. I replaced the tube and slowly inflated to 40psi and I can see how the bead is getting pushed off the rim. I've read about this phenomenon in other threads (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/sho...t=43362&page=2).

My questions are: Will this be an issue with every 2.0" tire I put on my rim (such as the Marathon Supreme)? Will this happen (or be less likely to happen) if I get the 29x2.15 or the 29x2.35 Big Apple? I like to ride at higher pressures for speed/efficiency.

It will be less likely to happen with the larger tires. I think the 2.35 BA would be fine on that rim, you might be able to get by with the 2.15 tire. In other threads people have commented that the 2.35 BA tire is more sensitive to road crown versus the 2.0 BA. However, if that hasn't been an issue for you on the 26x2.35, then I wouldn't expect it to be on the 29 either. Even with a bigger tire you might want to try lower pressure. Schwalbe claims that their "balloon" tires, such as the BA, roll as well at 2 Bar (~30psi) as a 37mm tire rolls at 4 Bar (~60psi).

A 42mm rim is wider than you really want for a 2" tire, especially at high pressure. This post mentions two different Schwalbe 2.0" tires blowing off the even narrower (38mm) Kris Holm 29" XC Rim at 70 psi.

The ETRTO compatibility chart below indicates that the recommended rim size for a 2.0" (50mm) tire is between 17mm to 27mm inside rim width. (Measurement B in the diagram.) Add 5-7mm to account for the bead hooks/sidewalls and you are looking at a 24mm to 34mm rim. Granted, the ETRTO recommendations will be somewhat conservative, but perhaps that's because they have to consider tire/rim combinations that will be run at high pressure as well as low. (The chart and diagram are from here.)


Martin

[kahunacohen]

wow, a timely post.

I have a KH29 with a standard rim size. I gave up trying to put my BA 2.0 on, though I managed to ride it a bit and had no problem with road crown, and I loved it.

A few times of the tire popping of the rim made me give up the idea. Really scary.

So, I was thinking of getting a road wheel build for my 29, basically an Oracle set up, which UDC assured me would take the BA 2.0, but this is making me wonder about that. I don't want the BA 2.35, I want the 2.0.

What are my other choices for getting a road wheel build for my KH29 and my BA 2.0, preferably with disc brakes, since my KH29 has an Oracle hub with disc brakes.

[davidp]

Originally Posted by kahunacohen

What are my other choices for getting a road wheel build for my KH29 and my BA 2.0, preferably with disc brakes, since my KH29 has an Oracle hub with disc brakes.

If you're building a road specific wheel, why not use a MTB rim? There are plenty of 36 hole rims that will support a 2" tire and lace to an Oracle hub. I have a road wheel using a Velocity Dyad (24mm wide).

[kahunacohen]

yeah, the velocity rim sounds like a good idea. They don't sell them at UDC, and I don't want to build it myself.

Should I get all the parts from UDC, order the rim elsewhere and have an LBS build it?

[Feisty]

I run a Sun Ringle MTX33 which is a nice medium width rim and pretty light, it would suite 2" road tyre nicely

I have a oracle hub on mine as well

[kahunacohen]

Fiesty: I see you have a mountain bike tire on there. What width is that tire? Why did you go with the narrower rim? Do you swap out a road tire?

As far as getting the wheel built, I guess I would need to order all parts from UDC and the rim from elsewhere and have it built at an LBS?

How does this rim compare against the velocity?

[mad]

Originally Posted by kahunacohen

wow, a timely post.

I have a KH29 with a standard rim size. I gave up trying to put my BA 2.0 on, though I managed to ride it a bit and had no problem with road crown, and I loved it.

A few times of the tire popping of the rim made me give up the idea. Really scary.

So, I was thinking of getting a road wheel build for my 29, basically an Oracle set up, which UDC assured me would take the BA 2.0, but this is making me wonder about that. I don't want the BA 2.35, I want the 2.0.

What are my other choices for getting a road wheel build for my KH29 and my BA 2.0, preferably with disc brakes, since my KH29 has an Oracle hub with disc brakes.

I'm glad you picked up on this thread. I read your posts in the other thread and I thought about posting there too but I figured you'd probably see this one when I bumped it.

Like davidp said, most any MTB rim would probably be suitable. In the size range I mentioned you have the Dyad (24mm), Sun Ryno Lite (27.4mm) and Rhyno Lite XL (29.2mm), Sun MTX 31 or the 33 that Feisty uses, on up to a Salsa Gordo (35mm). There are many other rims available that would work. Even in this size range a wider rim will give you more tire spread. I read on another forum that a 2.0 Marathon Supreme measured 44mm wide on a Dyad and 48mm wide on a Gordo. I measured 46mm wide, with the same model tire, on a Rhyno Lite. I would expect the same results with the BA 2.0 and the same general benefit from a wider rim; comparable stability at slightly lower pressures.

UDC still carries the KH XC rim that I previously linked. At 38mm wide (probably 31 to 33mm inside width) it is still a little bigger than ETRTO guidelines. But it is still closer than the 42mm rim, and much closer than the 47mm rim. It probably does ok with a 2 inch tire at 45-55 psi as opposed to the 70psi blow offs mentioned previously. I found another thread from 2009 about a BA 2.0 tire blowing off a KH rim. He mentions, at the end of the thread, that Schwalbe replaced his BA 2.0 with a 2.35 and told him that the rim was too big for a two inch tire. It doesn't say which KH rim he was using so I sent the OP of that thead a PM asking about it. I am very curious to find out if it was the 38mm XC rim though I suspect it was the Freeride.

The 2009 thread I mentioned also brings up the fact, and I have read this elsewhere, that blowing a tire off the rim may damage the tire. This can make it more prone to blowing off, even at lower pressures than the original failure. If the tire always starts slipping in the same place it may be correctable with a little rim cement. I might also be corrected by moving the tire to a narrower rim.

As far as having UDC build your wheel... Call and talk to someone in the service department. Ask if you could drop ship a rim directly to them and then buy the remaining parts and the build from them. I am pretty sure they do custom work, Nurse Ben's 32" wheel was built by UDC on a rim that he provided.

[MuniAddict]

I built a new 700c wheel for my kh 29er, and it has become one of my very favorite unicycles! I use it for steep road climbing only, and it weighs in at a scant 11.5 pounds! I used the Velocity Dyad rim and resist nomad tire. It's the perfect combination.

[pcuni]

I run a resist nomad (700x45) on a kh xc 38mm rim. It works great. I don't run really high pressure, only 45-50 psi. I have hundreds of miles with no problems so far. It does crown a bit but nothing unmanagable. I haven't tried any of the schwalbe tires so I have little to compare it with other than a kenda small block 8 I used to ride on the road. The nomad seems to be a great uni tire, I'm surprised it doesn't get more mention. Resist is an awful name for a tire company though.

[unigami]

I just ordered the Schwalbe "Big Ben" from Rivendell - click the link to read their description and review:

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/tben.htm

I'll post a review!

[pstrick]

Originally Posted by mad

It will be less likely to happen with the larger tires. I think the 2.35 BA would be fine on that rim, you might be able to get by with the 2.15 tire. In other threads people have commented that the 2.35 BA tire is more sensitive to road crown versus the 2.0 BA. However, if that hasn't been an issue for you on the 26x2.35, then I wouldn't expect it to be on the 29 either. Even with a bigger tire you might want to try lower pressure. Schwalbe claims that their "balloon" tires, such as the BA, roll as well at 2 Bar (~30psi) as a 37mm tire rolls at 4 Bar (~60psi).

A 42mm rim is wider than you really want for a 2" tire, especially at high pressure. This post mentions two different Schwalbe 2.0" tires blowing off the even narrower (38mm) Kris Holm 29" XC Rim at 70 psi.

The ETRTO compatibility chart below indicates that the recommended rim size for a 2.0" (50mm) tire is between 17mm to 27mm inside rim width. (Measurement B in the diagram.) Add 5-7mm to account for the bead hooks/sidewalls and you are looking at a 24mm to 34mm rim. Granted, the ETRTO recommendations will be somewhat conservative, but perhaps that's because they have to consider tire/rim combinations that will be run at high pressure as well as low. (The chart and diagram are from here.)


Martin

Great info- thanks for posting it!
Well I've replaced the tube and super-carefully mounted the tire and inflated, this time only to 55psi (max rating 70 on the BA 29x2.0). Rode 8 miles yesterday without any problems but I have to say I am a little paranoid that it's going to blow at an inopportune time (not sure what an opportune time would be), and also paranoid about rim damage and self damage that might happen. I guess I might try the 29x2.15 if I have another blowout, but keeping my fingers crossed.

There really are not many wide road tires at the 29" size!

[mad]

Originally Posted by mad

UDC still carries the KH XC rim that I previously linked. At 38mm wide (probably 31 to 33mm inside width) it is still a little bigger than ETRTO guidelines. But it is still closer than the 42mm rim, and much closer than the 47mm rim. It probably does ok with a 2 inch tire at 45-55 psi as opposed to the 70psi blow offs mentioned previously. I found another thread from 2009 about a BA 2.0 tire blowing off a KH rim. He mentions, at the end of the thread, that Schwalbe replaced his BA 2.0 with a 2.35 and told him that the rim was too big for a two inch tire. It doesn't say which KH rim he was using so I sent the OP of that thead a PM asking about it. I am very curious to find out if it was the 38mm XC rim though I suspect it was the Freeride.

So I heard back from the OP of that 2009 thread, wdunicyclist. He said that he was running the 38mm wide KH XC rim (D'Oh!) and he had the tire at 65psi. He also suggested the DT Swiss TK540, a heavy touring/e-bike rim, as a good choice for a 700c commuter.

Originally Posted by unigami

I just ordered the Schwalbe "Big Ben" from Rivendell.

Looking forward to your review. Are you getting the 50mm or the 55mm and what rim do you have?

[pstrick]

Originally Posted by mad

It will be less likely to happen with the larger tires. I think the 2.35 BA would be fine on that rim, you might be able to get by with the 2.15 tire. In other threads people have commented that the 2.35 BA tire is more sensitive to road crown versus the 2.0 BA. However, if that hasn't been an issue for you on the 26x2.35, then I wouldn't expect it to be on the 29 either. Even with a bigger tire you might want to try lower pressure. Schwalbe claims that their "balloon" tires, such as the BA, roll as well at 2 Bar (~30psi) as a 37mm tire rolls at 4 Bar (~60psi).

A 42mm rim is wider than you really want for a 2" tire, especially at high pressure. This post mentions two different Schwalbe 2.0" tires blowing off the even narrower (38mm) Kris Holm 29" XC Rim at 70 psi.

The ETRTO compatibility chart below indicates that the recommended rim size for a 2.0" (50mm) tire is between 17mm to 27mm inside rim width. (Measurement B in the diagram.) Add 5-7mm to account for the bead hooks/sidewalls and you are looking at a 24mm to 34mm rim. Granted, the ETRTO recommendations will be somewhat conservative, but perhaps that's because they have to consider tire/rim combinations that will be run at high pressure as well as low. (The chart and diagram are from here.)


Martin

Thanks for all of the great info here and in subsequent posts. I've been doing okay so far (10 miles anyway) with the BA 29x2.0 on my 42mm Oracle rim with it inflated to 55psi. Another blow-off the rim and I will try the 2.15" width which would be cheaper than building a new rim. I guess the fundamental issue is a good wide street slick 29" tire is not a tire that there is a big market for.