Is Bipolar an excuse for bad behavior?

[Nurse Ben]

Anyone have good sources linking increasing access to media with poor impulse control?

[BillyTheMountain]

Try scientists for a good source of information, rather than pharmaceutical companies. It's easy to be influenced by your own single case studies, as Amos Tversky and Kahneman established: you have a cognitive bias (Kahneman & Tversky, 1973).

L. Alan Sroufe is a professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Minnesota’s Institute of Child Development. He found attention-deficit drugs increase concentration in the short term, which is why they work so well for college students cramming for exams. But when given to children over long periods of time, they neither improve school achievement nor reduce behavior problems. The drugs can also have serious side effects, including stunting growth.

Sadly, few physicians and parents seem to be aware of what we have been learning about the lack of effectiveness of these drugs.

When we reviewed the literature on attention-deficit drugs again in 1990 we found that all children, whether they had attention problems or not, responded to stimulant drugs the same way. Moreover, while the drugs helped children settle down in class, they actually increased activity in the playground. Stimulants generally have the same effects for all children and adults. They enhance the ability to concentrate, especially on tasks that are not inherently interesting or when one is fatigued or bored, but they don’t improve broader learning abilities.

And just as in the many dieters who have used and abandoned similar drugs to lose weight, the effects of stimulants on children with attention problems fade after prolonged use. Some experts have argued that children with A.D.D. wouldn’t develop such tolerance because their brains were somehow different. But in fact, the loss of appetite and sleeplessness in children first prescribed attention-deficit drugs do fade, and, as we now know, so do the effects on behavior. They apparently develop a tolerance to the drug, and thus its efficacy disappears. Many parents who take their children off the drugs find that behavior worsens, which most likely confirms their belief that the drugs work. But the behavior worsens because the children’s bodies have become adapted to the drug.

If drugs, which studies show work for four to eight weeks, are not the answer, what is? Many of these children have anxiety or depression; others are showing family stresses. We need to treat them as individuals.

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

Anyone have good sources linking increasing access to media with poor impulse control?

It's more complicated than they'd like you to believe :
http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_f...nd_tv_violence

They need to study the Amish community ....

[Nurse Ben]

Quote:
It's more complicated than they'd like you to believe :
http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_f...

Well of course it is, but then if we just sit on our hands and wait for proof, will we wait to long?

[Samstoney]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

I you take a medication, then you are choosing to take that medication, so it is your responsibility to ask questions until you get the answers you need to feel right. If a person is not competent to ask these questions, then they should have a friend or family member attend appts with them. If a prescriber "does the ugly" and tells you that he/she is the doctor and you should take them because they say so, well then that should be your signal for the door.

I heartily agree. But it is hard for an overworked parent to *not* listen to the psychiatrist saying "this is the proven way to deal with ADHD", along with the other parents giving their kids Ritalin/Adderal/ADHD drug of the month and the teachers. I'm not sure what the answer is.

In a different situation - say I was a single working parent, or we had to stick with the school system he was in (big classes, once size fits all education) my son very likely still be on meds, and he'd probably just fine, along with his other classmates on meds. But I'm concerned that medication is trending to become a prerequisite for male education.

Sam

[Samstoney]

I love this video...

Originally Posted by Byc

Here's a nice video, okay it's about schooling systems but ADHD and the rise of diagnosis of ADHD are menioned in it.


Greetings

Dru

[BillyTheMountain]

Better yet, a front page NY Times article today included interviews with private school, ivy league bound high school students who take these drugs for tests and studying.

They talk about the fake stories they present to their nurse practitioner and doctor in order to pretend they have ADHD to get the Adderal and other amphetamines

[Nurse Ben]

They talk about the fake stories they present to their nurse practitioner and doctor in order to pretend they have ADHD to get the Adderal and other amphetamines

My wife sent me the link.

Seriously, it was a bit on the "grandiose" side of things. Like statistics, it is not hard to skew things in a direction that proves a point.

In counterpoint, I have a completely different issue that I deal with on a daily basis: teenagers who don't want to take medicine.

What I really found funny were the comments about teens "connning" their psychiatrist into giving them adderall for a faked inattention: "I even looked out the window to show then I was inattentive.

Really? Like I don't sit here all day and observe kids...that I can be fooled by a kid. Really? Hmm, I don't think so

So, here's the point you should take away from this discussion: A reporter writing a story that starts with an agenda, that reporter is looking for stories that support the agenda. If the reporter interviewed me, well you can't expect my thoughts to be included, now can we?

Do kids abuse stimulants? Sure, they also abuse any number of things including cough syrup, fake pot, you name it. They are kids, they experiment, most of us did the same at some point in our youth.

The problem with an article like this is that when lay people read it they suddenly think that this is a big problem, when in reality it is a little problem. This is the power of media, both it's success and failure.

You wanna talk about a big problem? Let's talk about bullying.

[Nurse Ben]

But I'm concerned that medication is trending to become a prerequisite for male education.

Trending? Nah, it's same ole, same ole, even the reporter "disclosed" that the use of stimulants had gone down in recent years and stabalized at ~10%.

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

Do kids abuse stimulants? Sure, they also abuse any number of things including cough syrup, fake pot, you name it.

Why is using a performance enhancing drug that doctors claim is relatively harmless in the usual dose called "abuse," if you are using it to improve your attention? that is what the drug is designed to do.

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by forrestunifreak

You've been here 4 months and you think it's boring already?

Originally Posted by drumstuck

Kids today, eh? Probably forgot to have his swig of ritalin when he got home from school

.......

[MuniAddict]

I think we really need to defer to an expert:

Tom Cruise chews out Matt Lauer on LIVE TV -...

[Nurse Ben]

I think we really need to defer to an expert:

Man, after Tom did his thing on television, it was weeks of talking to parents about how the medications work, some parents insisted that all medications be stopped; yeah, they were back later with their tail between their legs

Why is using a performance enhancing drug that doctors claim is relatively harmless in the usual dose called "abuse

I suppose the same general statement could be said about steroids. If you were to ask lay people their opinion on steroids, many would say that they shoudl be banned, yet the most common steroid use is for treating asthma

Number one: it is illegal to use a medication that has not been prescribed, ie taking someone else's Rx.
Number two: anything can be abused, so for instance where having a beer/wine socially is "okay", drinking a case is considered abuse. There is a line there, kinda fuzzy at times, but it's there.

So ask yourself, is it fair for someone who is not "limited" to make rules on what others can use to overcome their limitations as long as it is not illegal/unethical?

As a prescriber I have seen real "awakenings" on just about every medication I prescribe, and the most successful medications are stimulants and the least successful medications are mood stabailizers. Medications are a tool, nothing more, they don't change the way you think, they don't change who you are, they are simply a possible way to make your struggle lessened.

As for Tom Cruise: It is a shame (crime?) when someone uses their public recogntion to cast doubt on an entire group of professionals when the foundation for that person's belief is personal; i.e. religion.

[BillyTheMountain]

Even though I don't have ADHD, would ADHD drugs enhance my unicycle work outs and UNICON performance?

Doc, it would really enhance my low self esteem for me to win!

[Zzagg]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

Would ADHD drugs enhance my unicycle work outs and UNICON performance?

[off topic]You mean you're going to next Unicon, Billy?[/off topic]