Second Amendment and the right to keep and bear arms

[maestro8]

Originally Posted by harper

I do envision a better tomorrow. One without people banding together trying to control the lives of others.

Ah, Harper. Sometimes I just wanna reach through the monitor and squeeze your rosy cheeks, you big hunk of a nuclear physicist, you...

So, has anyone taken Nurse Ben's unicycle away yet? I'm afraid he's out riding irresponsibly, since he doesn't have The Great Unicycle Wizard's Grand Approval of Responsible Unicycling sticker on his helmet.

[nick]

I love that you wrote this:

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

Do you really think that people living over two hundred years ago would have any clue as to what is best for our society?

Followed by this:

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

What would Jesus do?

Originally Posted by harper

Other than to point out the completely inaccurate use of the phrase "beg the question" I see no reason to address this at all

"Beg the question" is the new "I could(n't) care less."

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by harper

Other than to point out the completely inaccurate use of the phrase "beg the question"

They no longer allow begging on the NYC subway system, begging the question is outlawed

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by maestro8

Ah, Harper. Sometimes I just wanna reach through the monitor and squeeze your rosy cheeks, you big hunk of a nuclear physicist, you...

There's just another way in which you are completely misguided, victim of myths and mythology, and Harper might not correct you ...

[BillyTheMountain]

Originally Posted by harper

I do envision a better tomorrow. One without people banding together trying to control the lives of others.

Really?! Where everyone is free to rob, steal, kill, and shoot, without you and your goodniks trying to control?! Truancy and DWIs for kids, too??!

That's not MY idea of a bette tomorrow.

[harper]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

That's not MY idea of a bette tomorrow.

I'll bette it's not.

[maestro8]

Originally Posted by BillyTheMountain

There's just another way in which you are completely misguided, victim of myths and mythology

Funny you say this Billy. You seem the misguided one. Harper's so lovable I had to put an entire state between us just to keep me from spending every day at his house playing canasta and drinking root beer until the wee hours of the morning.

Harper's no myth. He's as real as the little electrons spinning 'round in your pinky toe.

[Nurse Ben]

I do envision a better tomorrow. One without people banding together trying to control the lives of others.

And you got on me about my blinders to force being used in other countries...

So, you'd prefer anarchy over societal controls?

Who knows, maybe we'll get there sooner than you think:

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/201...ink-slips.html
http://www.berksmontnews.com/article...0398195104.txt
http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/loca...7a4a78c22.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...se_cuttin.html
http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/26/news...cuts/index.htm

Better arm yourselves

How many ogun owners will never use their gun(s)? So if the arument is "I have a gun just in case", then why don't you have other things like sprinklers in your home? Owning a gun is easy and cheap, sound familiar? It's an arms race unless we control the arms.

I am far less concerned about being harmed by "less lethal" means, so if there were no guns, I would feel more secure.

It is a mindset, those who believe in force; might makes right, they prefer to own guns. Okay, own your guns, it's your right in the USA, but don't tell me that you are peaceful or that you are a safe gun owner, that could be no further from the truth.

Walk the talk.

I do have a question for the peeps: Do you any of you work with "pre-criminals" or criminals, either juvenile or adult?

[harper]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

Okay, own your guns, it's your right in the USA, but don't tell me that you are peaceful or that you are a safe gun owner, that could be no further from the truth.

I am peaceful and I am a safe gun owner (as well as a gun safe owner). I guess I'm just a rebel. I see a challenge like that and I have to respond.

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

I do have a question for the peeps: Do you any of you work with "pre-criminals" or criminals, either juvenile or adult?

I am a pre-criminal, I suppose.

[maestro8]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

So, you'd prefer anarchy over societal controls?

This is a false dichotomy. Society can be self-regulating. As the saying goes, "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

How many ogun owners will never use their gun(s)?

Responsible gun owners practice regularly with their weapons.

But as for use in self defense... 'tis better to have and not need, than need and not have. Just like a fire suppression system. And, yes, I have fire extinguishers throughout my house and in my cars.

I am far less concerned about being harmed by "less lethal" means, so if there were no guns, I would feel more secure.

You're still assuming there's a "no guns" option, without telling us how we'd ever get there...

Another saying: don't bring a knife to a gun fight. "Less lethal" only means you're being kind to your aggressor while he robs, rapes and murders you.

don't tell me that you are peaceful or that you are a safe gun owner, that could be no further from the truth

...says the guy who wants to see me left defenseless, at the mercy of armed criminals. Don't tell me you're compassionate.

[Gilby]

Originally Posted by Nurse Ben

So, you'd prefer anarchy over societal controls?

Anarchy! I dream that we can achieve that someday. Imagine being in a voluntary society.

Now, your question seems to present that anarchy and societal controls are exclusive of each other, but all societies have societal controls, even an anarchist society. You don't need a government (ie. a territorial authoritarian monopoly) to have law and order.

And, yes, I should be able to own a nuclear weapon, either in full, or as being a member of a protection service provider.

[nick]

Originally Posted by maestro8

As the saying goes, "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

What? It seems to me that the opposite is true. I think a big part of the problem with gun ownership in America is that people have the feeling that owning a gun suddenly turns you into a "big man" who no longer needs to follow the rules.

What if I choose not to own a gun? Can people then just be jerks to me because I can't threaten them with deadly force?

Is it okay for someone to shoot me dead, just because they think I'm being disrespectful?

How do you explain the notoriously bad manners of the Crips and the Bloods?

How do you explain the notoriously bad manners of North Korea?

I think if you want to argue for gun rights, this is not the way to do it.

[johnfoss]

Originally Posted by maestro8

As the saying goes, "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

Sayings are a dime a dozen (so the saying goes). Are there good examples of polite societies of people that are armed? The Old West does not come to mind.

In any case, there is much to be said for the power of personal responsibility and a society that takes it, and uses it to maintain order. In other words, people being nice on their own, and not needing a courtroom to achieve it. But we don't live in that society. Adding guns won't make people nicer. I'm not sure what will make people nicer, but arming everyone would not work in today's American society.

Originally Posted by Gilby

And, yes, I should be able to own a nuclear weapon, either in full, or as being a member of a protection service provider.

If Unicyclsit.com somehow came into possession of a nuclear weapon, I might not be scared. Long as Unicyclist.com has the security forces to protect it from theft or nefarious use.

[maestro8]

Originally Posted by nick

I think a big part of the problem with gun ownership in America is that people have the feeling that owning a gun suddenly turns you into a "big man" who no longer needs to follow the rules.

There's your problem right there. Not my problem. Your problem.

[nick]

Originally Posted by maestro8

There's your problem right there. Not my problem. Your problem.

If you're an American who is in favor of second amendment rights, I would say that the proliferation of such people in our society is more your problem than it is mine.

Gun ownership isn't really an issue I care greatly about (either way). But, from a practical in politics kind of a view, if you really want to protect your right to own a gun (or several), you probably want to be promoting responsible gun ownership.